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Erfurt Latrine Disaster

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Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#31

Post by zby »

danjc wrote: post #17
bandyaboot wrote: post #2

Interesting to think about the horrible ambient smell that must have existed even in these noble-class locations at the time. A wooden floor built over a giant open sewage pit.

Something smells off about this story. It’s got linked references but I can imagine this ending up being disproven as one of those fictitious Wikipedia articles.

Most probably they just died from the fall and only one or two landed in the latrine. But the latrine was the most salient part of the story - so it was what everybody was talking about and then it was recorded that way.

Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#32

Post by jprd »

danjc wrote: post #17
bandyaboot wrote: post #2

Interesting to think about the horrible ambient smell that must have existed even in these noble-class locations at the time. A wooden floor built over a giant open sewage pit.

Something smells off about this story. It’s got linked references but I can imagine this ending up being disproven as one of those fictitious Wikipedia articles.

I see what you did there.

Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#33

Post by chihuahua »

jp57 wrote: post #29

> King Henry was said to have survived only because he sat in an alcove with a stone floor. I cannot stop imagining this event from his perspective and wondering what words might have been spoken just before the collapse.

Perhaps it's the origin of the phrase "holy shit!"

Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#34

Post by amelius »

Surprisingly little information for such an impactful event. How did people respond? Did people not get angry with the king? And I would have expected some architectural information, technical drawings of how this could have happened etc.

Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#35

Post by TylerE »

zby wrote: post #31
danjc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something smells off about this story. It’s got linked references but I can imagine this ending up being disproven as one of those fictitious Wikipedia articles.

Most probably they just died from the fall and only one or two landed in the latrine. But the latrine was the most salient part of the story - so it was what everybody was talking about and then it was recorded that way.

It seems latrine isn’t really accurate either. More like an (open…) septic tank

Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#36

Post by tharkun__ »

ogurechny wrote: post #16
bandyaboot wrote: post #2

Interesting to think about the horrible ambient smell that must have existed even in these noble-class locations at the time. A wooden floor built over a giant open sewage pit.

My exact thought. Wooden floors — not even strong enough to bear the crowd — and the cesspool large enough to fit 60 people? That's not the place for king's accommodation, even in time when everyone was used to the smell of the stables. If anything, the ammonia would corrode the hell out of any metallic objects in the building, like nails. Without reading German links, I suppose that either some architect had had a b…

Since you mentioned not reading the German version I went and checked and it's got a bit more info, though not a lot.

    [...] im oberen Stockwerk der Dompropstei des Marienstiftes zu Rat, als der alte und wohl auch morsche Boden des zweiten Geschosses plötzlich unter der außergewöhnlichen Last der vielen Menschen zusammenbrach. Dabei stürzten die meisten Anwesenden in die Tiefe, wo auch der Boden des ersten Geschosses dem plötzlichen Aufprall dieser Last nicht standhielt, sodass die Herabstürzenden noch tiefer in eine darunter liegende Abtrittgrube fielen [...]  andere wurden durch nachfallende Balken und Steine erschlagen oder verletzt.
So this mentions that this building didn't just have a ground floor w/ the latrine below it but one storey above. It's that second storey which was old and rotten and collapsed and broke through the ground floor, which wasn't strong enough to hold sixty people plus the broken top floor crashing into it. Unlike the English version that just mentions people drowning in excrement, this also mentions further falling debris like joists and stone simply hitting and thus killing or at least injuring people.

Btw, this is what this looks like today: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurter_Dom#/media/Datei:Erfu...

Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#38

Post by jl6 »

tharkun__ wrote: post #36
ogurechny wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My exact thought. Wooden floors — not even strong enough to bear the crowd — and the cesspool large enough to fit 60 people? That's not the place for king's accommodation, even in time when everyone was used to the smell of the stables. If anything, the ammonia would corrode the hell out of any metallic objects in the building, like nails. Without reading German links, I suppose that either some architect had had a b…

Since you mentioned not reading the German version I went and checked and it's got a bit more info, though not a lot. [...] im oberen Stockwerk der Dompropstei des Marienstiftes zu Rat, als der alte und wohl auch morsche Boden des zweiten Geschosses plötzlich unter der außergewöhnlichen Last der vielen Menschen zusammenbrach. Dabei stürzten die meisten Anwesenden in die Tiefe, wo auch der Boden des ersten Geschosses…

So is this a well-known part of popular lore in Germany? I can only imagine that if this had happened in England, every primary school pupil would know about it and there would be a toilet-themed gift shop on the site today.

Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#39

Post by ogurechny »

tharkun__ wrote: post #36
ogurechny wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My exact thought. Wooden floors — not even strong enough to bear the crowd — and the cesspool large enough to fit 60 people? That's not the place for king's accommodation, even in time when everyone was used to the smell of the stables. If anything, the ammonia would corrode the hell out of any metallic objects in the building, like nails. Without reading German links, I suppose that either some architect had had a b…

Since you mentioned not reading the German version I went and checked and it's got a bit more info, though not a lot. [...] im oberen Stockwerk der Dompropstei des Marienstiftes zu Rat, als der alte und wohl auch morsche Boden des zweiten Geschosses plötzlich unter der außergewöhnlichen Last der vielen Menschen zusammenbrach. Dabei stürzten die meisten Anwesenden in die Tiefe, wo auch der Boden des ersten Geschosses…

It says it happened in the deanery of a different church in the fortress (nitpick: not surrounded by this fortress at that time). https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterskirche_(Erfurt)

Its auxiliary buildings are long gone, and even auxiliary buildings from later centuries are long gone, too, and the church itself was converted and rebuilt many times.

Re: Erfurt Latrine Disaster

#40

Post by ogurechny »

TylerE wrote: post #21

Nails would have been rather rare in that time period (or any time up to about 1700). They did exist, but weren’t generally used as they weren’t very strong (wrought iron is.. well, not steel) and had to be made by hand

Not modern nails and wires, obviously, maybe some slugs holding stuff here and there.
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