The weekly HN 'new battery chemistry will solve all worlds problems' story. I will believe it when I see it
Yes. My question is always "show me the shop where I can buy it". Never an answer ;)
CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
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Re: CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
#32I've been following the developments around this chemistry since the time Tiamat announced their sodium-ion battery and it appears that in this case it's not all sunshine and rainbows:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-06/catl-s...
Re: CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
#33The weekly HN 'new battery chemistry will solve all worlds problems' story. I will believe it when I see it
Yes. My question is always "show me the shop where I can buy it". Never an answer ;)
Lab bench to product can be 15 years or more, so doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
The other hard thing is beating Li-Ion. It would have to be a lot better or cheaper to beat the economy of scale. Just a little better won’t displace the incumbent.
Re: CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
#34Why does the article do a head to head comparison between the new battery and a "generic" Lithium battery.. and then later we see the specs of the Tesla battery and it is just about identical with the new battery.. but you know.. more energy dense and in production. The differences seem to be more in the rounding range. Sure.. twice the milage.. but show me a car where this matters past 500k. Always clickbait.. Now compare this to some Tesla battery still in R&D...
Re: CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. My question is always "show me the shop where I can buy it". Never an answer ;)
Lab bench to product can be 15 years or more, so doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. The other hard thing is beating Li-Ion. It would have to be a lot better or cheaper to beat the economy of scale. Just a little better won’t displace the incumbent.
That's the thing: Lithium ion batteries are not a fixed technology, they're a moving target. They've evolved dramatically and encompass many different chemistries since they first appeared in the lab in the 70's. But since they're all grouped under the name "Lithium ion" people just think of them as a fixed, static, mature technology.
Re: CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. My question is always "show me the shop where I can buy it". Never an answer ;)
Lab bench to product can be 15 years or more, so doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. The other hard thing is beating Li-Ion. It would have to be a lot better or cheaper to beat the economy of scale. Just a little better won’t displace the incumbent.
If you can’t get the Lithium it’ll have a chance. Lithium I believe is quite common, it is just increasing supply could take several years.
Re: CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given that sodium ion is claimed to - charge twice as fast as lithium ion - have double the number of charge cycles - cost substantially less - be substantially safer - and more environmentally friendly I think it would be the clear preference for all but the highest performance vehicles. Note that Tesla is also trying to reduce cost in moving to 4680 cells [1]: > the main reason Tesla is using 4680 batteries at the…
Comparing to LFP the advantages are not that big. It might be cheaper and scale better. Charging speed is now mostly limited by public charger speed and good enough. I expect sodium batteries to have a big impact in cars that cost 25k or less.
There are some larger charging stations with large battery banks that can store enough electricity for fast charging.
Re: CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Comparing to LFP the advantages are not that big. It might be cheaper and scale better. Charging speed is now mostly limited by public charger speed and good enough. I expect sodium batteries to have a big impact in cars that cost 25k or less.
There are some larger charging stations with large battery banks that can store enough electricity for fast charging.
It's more about being able to deliver it when many cars are charging. Charging speeds go down considerably. I typically don't get the maximum possible speed and often am far off and sometimes that depends on the number of cars charging.
Re: CATL's Sodium-Ion Battery
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Comparing to LFP the advantages are not that big. It might be cheaper and scale better. Charging speed is now mostly limited by public charger speed and good enough. I expect sodium batteries to have a big impact in cars that cost 25k or less.
The only significant advantage compared to LFP appears to be the price. However the price advantage is more than enough. After a short googling, it appears that I could buy right now a battery large enough to supply the energy for one day for my house (5 kWh), either as sodium-ion for $650 or as lithium-iron phosphate for $5000 (with very similar specifications for endurance and size). The former I could buy at any t…
Yeah, I'm talking about car batteries.