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Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

economist.com

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Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#171

Post by turrican »

gamblor956 wrote: post #157
JasonFruit wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible that we're both right. Do you mind sharing where in the Midwest you have experience?

Ohio. People there are vile, especially in Akron and the smaller factory towns. And Oklahoma, outside of Tulsa.

My anecdote to counter yours:

I moved from the PNW to Rhode Island for four years, and then to Ohio. Moving to the Northeast was absolutely a culture shock for both of us, with “colder” and less helpful people in general. Over time, we discovered that the people in rural areas were still friendly, and the city people would open up after they got to know you, but there was a very noticeable lack of trust or respect in Providence. As an example, I remember one of those electric scooter companies pulled out of Providence because they couldn’t stop our citizens from throwing the scooters into the Bay.

We moved to Cincinnati next and it’s a night and day difference. Friendly service at businesses, people helping each other in snowstorms, etc. I’ve helped to care for my elderly neighbors since day one and we always get help when we need it as well.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#172

Post by decafninja »

GameOfFrowns wrote: post #148
decafninja wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone above said - culture. As to why the culture is different between say, NYC and Tokyo, well there’s many factors involved. But as some people say when describing certain things in NYC, “it’s why we can’t have nice things”.

>NYC and Tokyo, well there’s many factors involved. And the most obvious one is demographic composition.

Probably the most taboo thing to say too.

I myself prefer the diversity of NYC over the monoculture of most East Asian cities (and I say this as an East Asian myself), but failing to recognize that both models have pros and cons because of political correctness is stupid.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#173

Post by throwawayacc4 »

roflyear wrote: post #107
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

Most US cities are like this. Not the burbs or the rural areas which in my experience is all about me me me.

Most burbs or the rural areas are like this. Not the cities which in my experience is all about me me me.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#174

Post by llanowarelves »

rayiner wrote: post #166
llanowarelves wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't like to hear it, but a high-trust society is enabled by homogeneity. Look at Japan's demographics, and opposition to foreign religions, languages, etc. They don't allow "the world" to recreate itself inside them, and the conflict and distrust (Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam) that that brings.

Homogeneity is necessary but not sufficient. Italy is pretty homogenous (95% Italians) but it’s not a particularly high trust society.

Correct

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#175

Post by tptacek »

llanowarelves wrote: post #115
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

People don't like to hear it, but a high-trust society is enabled by homogeneity. Look at Japan's demographics, and opposition to foreign religions, languages, etc. They don't allow "the world" to recreate itself inside them, and the conflict and distrust (Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam) that that brings.

This is probably a just-so story. Australia is, by the numbers, a high-trust country, and is more diverse than Canada. Both are higher-trust than Japan. Contrary to your claim here, Japan and the US have in fact very similar surveyed levels of trust. What seems actually to be the case is that remarkably high-trust countries, surveyed at, I don't know, several SD above the mean, are rare. Several of them happen to be Nordic, and people extrapolate from there.

I'm sure being ethnically homogenous does smooth things over for Norway. But so does being small and galactically wealthy from extractive industry.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#176

Post by TooSmugToFail »

My first (and only) visit to Japan was a week-long trip to Tokyo in early summer this year. It promptly became my favourite city in the world (and I traveled a few places).

For me, Tokyo represents a pinnacle of successful urbanisation. The people are superbly polite and considerate, it’s safe and clean, with stunningly beautiful architecture within urban spaces that were surprisingly green and simply pleasant to be in. The car traffic is immensly busy, but works amazingly well. Public transit works like clockwork.

Public spaces are busy like you’d expect them to be in a metropolis, but in a non-stressful and benevolent way. Food is amazing.

It was love at first sight. Maybe I was dazzled, but I want to go back there very soon.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#177

Post by mensetmanusman »

wesapien wrote: post #150
toxicFork wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is achievable with cultural education and values being taught from families and schools. It's not that much effort, but it may look unfeasible in the beginning.

Culture starts at home and in the family. No thanks to state sponsored cultural re-education.

If half the families are broken, what do we do?

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#178

Post by Wobble4978 »

llanowarelves wrote: post #115
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

People don't like to hear it, but a high-trust society is enabled by homogeneity. Look at Japan's demographics, and opposition to foreign religions, languages, etc. They don't allow "the world" to recreate itself inside them, and the conflict and distrust (Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam) that that brings.

No post body was provided.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#179

Post by astrange »

throwaway-9000 wrote: post #162
astrange wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Japanese government, like France, does not track ethnicity stats. When you see a number like this it means Japanese citizens, not “ethnic Japanese”. (Ethnic Japanese are nearly the same people as Koreans too, but that doesn’t stop them being racist against each other, so it is all kind of made up.) There’s also very many more immigrants in Tokyo these days.

I didn't say "Japanese citizens", I said "Yamato Japanese", the ethnic group.

Yes, but if that number came from the government, it means Japanese citizens even if your source thought it meant something else.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#180

Post by googlryas »

astrange wrote: post #45
TapWaterBandit wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this implausible after just having visited Japan. The Japanese and Japanese culture are a lot of great things but I would never ever describe it as individualistic.

They’re not showing it to you. They keep it private but it’s still there. (that’s called “honne and tatemae”) You’re welcome to look through used fashion/music stores in Tokyo if you want to see how good their soft power is. Meanwhile the stereotypical suburban American thinks every nearby city is a hub of crime and won’t let their children walk anywhere until they’re 25. Vs: https://twitter.com/patio11/status/159632…

In what sense does American culture punish/suppress/relegate people who have private hobbies that Japanese culture doesn't?
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