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The Need to Read

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Need to Read

#141

Post by rossdavidh »

javajosh wrote: post #140

How would you respond to Socrates' objections to writing [0]? Especially: "You know, Phaedrus, writing shares a strange feature with painting. The offsprings of painting stand there as if they are alive, but if anyone asks them anything, they remain most solemnly silent. The same is true of written words. You’d think they were speaking as if they had some understanding, but if you question anything that has been said…

I am very much in agreement with PG's thesis in this essay, but I am a little surprised that he didn't at least address Socrates' famous critique of writing (and not just by pointing out that the only reason we know about it is that somebody else wrote it down).

Re: The Need to Read

#142

Post by byteflip »

I’ve always been quite mediocre at reading and writing. This has been confirmed by my grades over the years.

Just this week, I’ve been writing a script for a YouTube video and it is difficult for me. Organizing my thoughts and making it “seamless” is a lot of work. In my software job I usually default to bullet points for technical writing — which I feel is a cop out. I had decided before reading this article that I want to invest some time in these neglected skills.

Does anyone have any recommendations for improving these skills?

Re: The Need to Read

#143

Post by ant6n »

byteflip wrote: post #142

I’ve always been quite mediocre at reading and writing. This has been confirmed by my grades over the years. Just this week, I’ve been writing a script for a YouTube video and it is difficult for me. Organizing my thoughts and making it “seamless” is a lot of work. In my software job I usually default to bullet points for technical writing — which I feel is a cop out. I had decided before reading this article that I…

Practice? Using bullet points as a first step to make a draft of the overall structure seems like it could be helpful.

Re: The Need to Read

#144

Post by rgrieselhuber »

exhaze wrote: post #132
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distributed microservice world is a great way of putting it as formerly monolithic systems dissemble into factions.

By the way, here’s a thought that worries me - where does “let’s all become good deep structural thinkers by writing a lot” break down? How will we know it happened? What do we do then?

Revert to stone tablets?

Re: The Need to Read

#145

Post by akkartik »

kragen wrote: post #119
thunky wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to be a thinker, you have to write. > Start a blog! Posting to HN counts as writing, too.

posting to hn has its disadvantages most of the interactions you get are people trying to prove you wrong this is great when it's with evidence, but half the time instead they accuse you of lying, argue from their own authority, or insult you the options for including equations, data tables, and diagrams are very limited, and these are important when what you're thinking about is objectively falsifiable propositions…

You are already so prolific outside HN, have you considered collecting your HN comments in your own space?

Once I started doing this I found HN comments would grow off HN. Now there are a few subjects where I can just point people at a link the next time a subject comes up. And the link has often grown out of repeated iterations of debate on HN and elsewhere.

It doesn't bother me that people forget HN comments. I don't forget them, and that seems the important thing.

You _are_ right that one needs to keep HN at arms length. Over the years I try not to engage in repeated back and forth. I'm not writing primarily for whoever I'm arguing with. I'm writing for the silent readers.

Re: The Need to Read

#146

Post by paulpauper »

That sort of thing is unlikely to happen anytime soon. Not just because it would be hard to build a replacement for reading, but because even if one existed, it would be insufficient. Reading about x doesn't just teach you about x; it also teaches you how to write. [1]

I rea a lot as a kid, and still do, but suck at writing. I think it's at best a tangentially related skillset. Writing is not just about conveying information but doing so in a way that people are enticed to want to read, which is way harder than just the first.

Re: The Need to Read

#147

Post by raywu »

paulpauper wrote: post #146

That sort of thing is unlikely to happen anytime soon. Not just because it would be hard to build a replacement for reading, but because even if one existed, it would be insufficient. Reading about x doesn't just teach you about x; it also teaches you how to write. [1] I rea a lot as a kid, and still do, but suck at writing. I think it's at best a tangentially related skillset. Writing is not just about conveying inf…

Write simple sentences. Don’t use adverbs. That’s what my high school teacher told me. I still find it true.

Re: The Need to Read

#148

Post by mck- »

personjerry wrote: post #26

It's interesting that the article's thesis is about reading, but most of the article is actually about writing . And I think that's an understated point. I myself wrote a blog piece about "Blogging as Structured Thinking" earlier this year. I think that actually plenty of people do reading in various forms of content. The real challenge is getting people to do more writing. If you want to be a thinker, you have to wr…

If blogging is like a webpage, then a Zettelkasten is like a Wikipedia for your brains.

Inspired by a thread on HN ~2 years ago, I’ve now written 1,075 interconnected notes, and no longer feel that I forget 80% of any non-fiction book I read.

Linking is key; it allows you to connect any new insight to your existing externalized knowledge base, resulting in deeper understanding and retention.

It also creates the space to connect thoughts across disparate domains, which spawns novel ideas at an even greater rate. For example, I might link an idea about neuroscience to my chess writings that links to a note about workout methods which links to a piano technique note. Now I suddenly see a new connection about applying a piano practice technique to leveling up my chess score.

It has changed the way I read, or consume information generally.

A great book that got me started is Ahrens, S. (2017). How to Take Smart Notes

Re: The Need to Read

#149

Post by kenjackson »

Also with advancements in converting natural language to programming, most programming and automation will be done by simply concise writing. Writing well will become more important in STEM than it already is.

Re: The Need to Read

#150

Post by clolege »

byteflip wrote: post #142

I’ve always been quite mediocre at reading and writing. This has been confirmed by my grades over the years. Just this week, I’ve been writing a script for a YouTube video and it is difficult for me. Organizing my thoughts and making it “seamless” is a lot of work. In my software job I usually default to bullet points for technical writing — which I feel is a cop out. I had decided before reading this article that I…

I've also been trying to improve my writing recently. What's helped me was to read through a couple of resources on how to write better [0,1,2], and then:

1. Apply the better writing advice to my everyday speech

2. Focus on writing down exactly what I wanted to say, and how I would have said it

School taught me to be super wordy and focus overly on the editing stage. Nowadays, I read everything I write out loud and if it sounds awkward (or not like me) then I just delete it and write it again from scratch. Oftentimes it helps to just close my eyes, say what I want to out loud, then write down what I just said.

It can turn out to be a little bit wordier, but it almost always ends up being easier to read :)

[0] https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31060362 [2] https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Well-Classic-Guide-Nonfiction...

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