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The Need to Read

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Need to Read

#121

Post by rerdavies »

kragen wrote: post #119
thunky wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to be a thinker, you have to write. > Start a blog! Posting to HN counts as writing, too.

posting to hn has its disadvantages most of the interactions you get are people trying to prove you wrong this is great when it's with evidence, but half the time instead they accuse you of lying, argue from their own authority, or insult you the options for including equations, data tables, and diagrams are very limited, and these are important when what you're thinking about is objectively falsifiable propositions…

... all of which seem like motivation for writing better. Keep on posting!

Re: The Need to Read

#122

Post by rgrieselhuber »

exhaze wrote: post #120

Folks here mentioned that the core point is not about the need to the importance of reading, but the importance of writing. No, it’s really about becoming better at deep, structured thinking. I think that’s quite a good thing to focus on. The world we live in is becoming more complex. I think it’s because our communication pipelines now have unlimited IO - there’s too much to consume, too much to process, too many th…

Recently I’ve heard it put in the context of how we can use rituals to build up our personal power (in the energy / ability to get things done sense, not the psychotic sense). This prompted me to make a list of things that can be ritualized for this purpose and writing is a big one.

Re: The Need to Read

#123

Post by Wowfunhappy »

> In the science fiction books I read as a kid, reading had often been replaced by some more efficient way of acquiring knowledge. Mysterious "tapes" would load it into one's brain like a program being loaded into a computer. That sort of thing is unlikely to happen anytime soon [...] because even if one existed, it would be insufficient. Reading about x doesn't just teach you about x; it also teaches you how to write.

Well, but if we could produce a tape that taught x, presumably we could also produce a tape that taught writing.

Re: The Need to Read

#124

Post by enan »

The essay makes this central claim but then spends most of the time talking about writing leading to better thinking (which I think is well proven). Does anyone know of research that backs up the main thesis?

"Reading about x doesn't just teach you about x; it also teaches you how to write."

Re: The Need to Read

#125

Post by exhaze »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #122
exhaze wrote: post #120

Folks here mentioned that the core point is not about the need to the importance of reading, but the importance of writing. No, it’s really about becoming better at deep, structured thinking. I think that’s quite a good thing to focus on. The world we live in is becoming more complex. I think it’s because our communication pipelines now have unlimited IO - there’s too much to consume, too much to process, too many th…

Recently I’ve heard it put in the context of how we can use rituals to build up our personal power (in the energy / ability to get things done sense, not the psychotic sense). This prompted me to make a list of things that can be ritualized for this purpose and writing is a big one.

I kind of stumbled upon writing by accident. To me it’s not about ability to get things done (thought it helps). It’s about feeling some semblance of control and structure, something I think so many struggle with in the past few years (Trump, COVID, Ukraine/Russia, recent tech layoffs, etc etc).

As others here mentioned, it’s kind of like programming.

We used it to live in “hello world”.

Now we all got thrown into this crazy distributed microservice world. The language of this new world is still the same. It’s (mostly) English. Except it’s more complex now and you have to be faster and better at writing. So write.

Re: The Need to Read

#126

Post by gonehome »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #123

> In the science fiction books I read as a kid, reading had often been replaced by some more efficient way of acquiring knowledge. Mysterious "tapes" would load it into one's brain like a program being loaded into a computer. That sort of thing is unlikely to happen anytime soon [...] because even if one existed, it would be insufficient. Reading about x doesn't just teach you about x; it also teaches you how to writ…

I think he’s referencing Asimov’s profession novella there, though the main point of that story was that the protagonist couldn’t get the tapes because of the capability for original thought (some people had to make the tapes).

And yeah, probably a tape that structured your brain in some way that had the knowledge may include the prerequisites necessary for it to work (better language/reasoning and writing).

But even if it didn’t, Asimov’s story agrees with him - it was insufficient. It’s why they made some people avoid the tapes.

Re: The Need to Read

#128

Post by Wowfunhappy »

gonehome wrote: post #126
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #123

> In the science fiction books I read as a kid, reading had often been replaced by some more efficient way of acquiring knowledge. Mysterious "tapes" would load it into one's brain like a program being loaded into a computer. That sort of thing is unlikely to happen anytime soon [...] because even if one existed, it would be insufficient. Reading about x doesn't just teach you about x; it also teaches you how to writ…

I think he’s referencing Asimov’s profession novella there, though the main point of that story was that the protagonist couldn’t get the tapes because of the capability for original thought (some people had to make the tapes). And yeah, probably a tape that structured your brain in some way that had the knowledge may include the prerequisites necessary for it to work (better language/reasoning and writing). But even…

I haven't read that Asimov story. However, I suppose the core question is this: from a neurological perspective, is learning factual information different from learning a skill?

I'm inclined to believe it's not, because we're actually pretty bad at rote memorization. We usually need to understand the memory—how it can be used, or why it's important. Professionals construct "mental palaces", effectively building artificial meaning.

Re: The Need to Read

#129

Post by photochemsyn »

jholman wrote: post #7

I think there is clear historical evidence that this thesis is, at a minimum, greatly exaggerated. Socrates never wrote, and I think he had more good ideas than Paul Graham ever will. Muhammad was not even literate, and unless he was inspired by divinity, his ideas were extremely powerful. I mean, I do personally find that writing is a powerful tool for thinking. Maybe that means that Paul Graham and I are normal, an…

Many people in ancient civilizations were trained in a mostly forgotten art, the recital of long stories, aka 'oral histories'. However, it's doubtful that any one person could retain a whole library of such oral histories, i.e. it was probably closer to one long text per person, given the limitations of human memory. Writing was essentially the creation of an external memory system that other people could refer to. For example, the first records of Icelandic sagas:

https://retrospectjournal.com/2016/10/10/from-oral-to-writte...

Re: The Need to Read

#130

Post by rgrieselhuber »

exhaze wrote: post #125
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I’ve heard it put in the context of how we can use rituals to build up our personal power (in the energy / ability to get things done sense, not the psychotic sense). This prompted me to make a list of things that can be ritualized for this purpose and writing is a big one.

I kind of stumbled upon writing by accident. To me it’s not about ability to get things done (thought it helps). It’s about feeling some semblance of control and structure, something I think so many struggle with in the past few years (Trump, COVID, Ukraine/Russia, recent tech layoffs, etc etc). As others here mentioned, it’s kind of like programming. We used it to live in “hello world”. Now we all got thrown into th…

Distributed microservice world is a great way of putting it as formerly monolithic systems dissemble into factions.
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