DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking • Hacker News Board

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#31

Post by gkoberger » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 9:24 PM UTC

delimitted wrote: post #24

lloeki wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this extension would have to be removed from the Mozilla repository. IM unfamiliar with the bill, but given SOPA's wording, could it be that the whole of addons.mozilla.org, or even mozilla.org end up banned? > At best, it would be distributed underground If it were to happen, I envision a world where Aunt Jackie will ask little nephew Steve to enable her the full internets because she can't watch some photos on…

I think if SOPA passes, Mozilla will remove extensions such as this. I hope this extension is a deterrent to SOPA passing at all.

Don't underestimate Mozilla's disdain for SOPA. (Disclaimer: Mozilla employee)

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#32

Post by dangrossman » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 9:28 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #4

It would be quite ironic if the ultimate legacy of SOPA is to strengthen the web by evolving the nature of DNS. I'm reminded of the past "victories" of the copyright lobby that ended up doing more harm (from their perspective) than good: shuttering Napster (which lead to the much better decentralized systems used for piracy today) and passing of the DMCA (which actually ended up giving legal coverage to businesses th…

The worst part of SOPA, in my opinion, is the ability for a rightsholder to ask any ad network or payment provider to stop doing business with any website merely by claiming the site's primary function is infringement... and the liability incentives the bill creates for doing so without a trial.

We can route around DNS blocks to get to the sites, but what does that matter if the sites close themselves because their funding was cut off? A site like YouTube would not be profitable without access to US-based ad networks.

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#33

Post by ryusage » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 9:29 PM UTC

Honestly, I've never really understood networking in great depth, so this may be a dumb question, but isn't bypassing SOPA as easy as specifying a new DNS server for your network connection?

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#34

Post by tomjen3 » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 9:35 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #32

nostromo wrote: post #4

It would be quite ironic if the ultimate legacy of SOPA is to strengthen the web by evolving the nature of DNS. I'm reminded of the past "victories" of the copyright lobby that ended up doing more harm (from their perspective) than good: shuttering Napster (which lead to the much better decentralized systems used for piracy today) and passing of the DMCA (which actually ended up giving legal coverage to businesses th…

The worst part of SOPA, in my opinion, is the ability for a rightsholder to ask any ad network or payment provider to stop doing business with any website merely by claiming the site's primary function is infringement... and the liability incentives the bill creates for doing so without a trial. We can route around DNS blocks to get to the sites, but what does that matter if the sites close themselves because their f…

Microtransactions in Bitcoin (or heck ads paid with bitcoin).

You can't cut of bitcoin transactions because there is by its very definition no place to cut them of.

If this is the case, we are only going to get that much closer to the end game.

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#35

Post by tomjen3 » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 9:40 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #2

This program is a proof of concept that SOPA will not help prevent piracy. The program, implemented as a Firefox extension, simply contacts offshore domain name resolution services to obtain the IP address for any desired website Part of SOPA is a provision that any tools for circumventing the DNS hijacking are themselves banned. So this extension would have to be removed from the Mozilla repository. At best, it woul…

The average user has friends who can supply him/her with this extension. As soon as these ordinary people her about these they will as "the guy they know who is really good with computers" about that program.

Won't take very much to do it. Heck I can even write one (since all you need to do is replace the DNS server).

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#36

Post by rabidsnail » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 9:52 PM UTC

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #17

gkoberger wrote: post #3

SOPA specifically (without actually naming it) calls out addons.mozilla.org for the whole mafiaafire thing -- so under SOPA, this add-on wouldn't be allowed to stay up. "[T]his version targets software developers and distributors as well. It allows the Attorney General (doing Hollywood or trademark holders' bidding) to go after more or less anyone who provides or offers a product or service that could be used to get…

It's been shown in court that source code is free speech, protected by the First Amendment (cf. Bernstein v. US, Junger v. Daley). I don't want this to get to that point, but that could be a way of getting around it. Some might argue that speech telling you how to commit a crime is not protected speech, but the Anarchist Cookbook is legal to possess as well. Dammit Jim, I'm a hacker, not a lawyer. This is not legal a…

Counterexample: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_v._Reimerdes

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#37

Post by dlikhten » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 9:57 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #34

dangrossman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part of SOPA, in my opinion, is the ability for a rightsholder to ask any ad network or payment provider to stop doing business with any website merely by claiming the site's primary function is infringement... and the liability incentives the bill creates for doing so without a trial. We can route around DNS blocks to get to the sites, but what does that matter if the sites close themselves because their f…

Microtransactions in Bitcoin (or heck ads paid with bitcoin). You can't cut of bitcoin transactions because there is by its very definition no place to cut them of. If this is the case, we are only going to get that much closer to the end game.

I have to say, as much as bitcoin is in a downfall, this actually makes a ton of sense. That was the initial goal of bitcoin, to create a de-centralized currency. As long as the BTC is a STABLE currency this works out well. Or short-term stable. It can become a medium of financial transfer: I buy 10 BTC, donate it, they claim 10 BTC, convert to cash. Done.

It would be great if there was a tool to literally facilitate this transaction without directly giving from one company to another, thus bypassing SOPA. I give the "holder" $10, the "holder" gives me 10 BTC. Then I give 10 BTC to say PirateBay. Then the "holder" guarantees that piratebay can sell 10 BTC to them for $10. Thats it. They only converted BTC to/from cash. I directly gave BTC to pirate bay. SOPA is ignored.

HOWEVER THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE INTERNET IS AGAINST. This will prevent all sort of anti-fraud that is going on now. You will wind up bypassing years of innovation to create a black market. It will be detremental.

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#38

Post by ojbyrne » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 10:05 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #3

SOPA specifically (without actually naming it) calls out addons.mozilla.org for the whole mafiaafire thing -- so under SOPA, this add-on wouldn't be allowed to stay up. "[T]his version targets software developers and distributors as well. It allows the Attorney General (doing Hollywood or trademark holders' bidding) to go after more or less anyone who provides or offers a product or service that could be used to get…

Of course, with SOPA they won't just take the one addon down, but the entire domain.

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#39

Post by JoshTriplett » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 10:26 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #34

dangrossman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part of SOPA, in my opinion, is the ability for a rightsholder to ask any ad network or payment provider to stop doing business with any website merely by claiming the site's primary function is infringement... and the liability incentives the bill creates for doing so without a trial. We can route around DNS blocks to get to the sites, but what does that matter if the sites close themselves because their f…

Microtransactions in Bitcoin (or heck ads paid with bitcoin). You can't cut of bitcoin transactions because there is by its very definition no place to cut them of. If this is the case, we are only going to get that much closer to the end game.

While you can't prevent transactions in bitcoins, you absolutely can cut off conversions between bitcoins and USD. Just cut them off at the payment provider the same way. Right now, bitcoin exchanges can operate entirely above-board; driving them underground and equating them with money launderers would make it extremely difficult for bitcoin to solve any of the problems that people want it to solve.

While many people (myself included) would love to see a cryptographic currency replace all existing currencies, it needs a transition period to have a good chance of succeeding, and making it illegal would eliminate that transition period.

Re: DeSopa: a Firefox addon to easily bypass SOPA DNS blocking

#40

Post by JoshTriplett » Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 10:29 PM UTC

dlikhten wrote: post #37

tomjen3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microtransactions in Bitcoin (or heck ads paid with bitcoin). You can't cut of bitcoin transactions because there is by its very definition no place to cut them of. If this is the case, we are only going to get that much closer to the end game.

I have to say, as much as bitcoin is in a downfall, this actually makes a ton of sense. That was the initial goal of bitcoin, to create a de-centralized currency. As long as the BTC is a STABLE currency this works out well. Or short-term stable. It can become a medium of financial transfer: I buy 10 BTC, donate it, they claim 10 BTC, convert to cash. Done. It would be great if there was a tool to literally facilitate…

> HOWEVER THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE INTERNET IS AGAINST. This will prevent all sort of anti-fraud that is going on now. You will wind up bypassing years of innovation to create a black market. It will be detremental.

Right now, in meatspace, I have both options: I can pay with cash and have little to no recourse or record, or I can pay with check or credit card and have a record and various fraud protection measures. I want to have both options on the Internet as well.

Also note that various bitcoin escrow agencies have popped up, which serve the obvious function. Assuming an agency exists that both parties trust, you can have the fraud protection you want if and when you want it.