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Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

economist.com

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Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#111

Post by roflyear »

JamesianP wrote: post #93
GekkePrutser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It creates stability, but often at the expense of flexibility. Also at the expense of individualism. The freedom to think differently gives us many different issues in the western world. But I still think it's worth it. Making the most of one's life is important. Also I don't think law enforcement is the biggest factor in reducing crime. It doesn't eliminate the need for people to commit crimes, it just moves it to…

US culture doesn't trap people in minimum wage jobs their entire lives. Even fast food places have raises and promotions. Maybe you're being hyperbolic there? It does generally require people to work and try, which can appear impossible if they lack a working parent or other role model to help them believe they can do it. This is not something welfare solves though. It possibly makes it worse. Something like shop cla…

They're being ethnocentrists. Or, racist.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#112

Post by roflyear »

bryik wrote: post #55

Two interesting statistics that may be relevant: Homeless per 10k rate [0] Japan: 0.3 USA: 17.6 Rate of intentional homicide victims per 100,000 inhabitants [1] Japan: 0.3 USA: 6.3 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_... 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

Japanese crime stats are not reliable. If the crime cannot be solved it is no longer reported as a crime.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#115

Post by llanowarelves »

mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

People don't like to hear it, but a high-trust society is enabled by homogeneity.

Look at Japan's demographics, and opposition to foreign religions, languages, etc. They don't allow "the world" to recreate itself inside them, and the conflict and distrust (Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam) that that brings.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#116

Post by toxicFork »

mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

This is achievable with cultural education and values being taught from families and schools. It's not that much effort, but it may look unfeasible in the beginning.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#117

Post by stjohnswarts »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #61
largepeepee wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a race thing, it's a trust and culture thing. There are diverse countries that have similar levels of safety like Singapore. If your government sucks, laws are poorly enforced or even maliciously enforced - there is low trust among the people, no respect for public spaces and no one follows the social norms.

Singapore's achieves "harmony" in their diverse city-state through severe authoritarian control. There's harmony because the state dictates their vison of harmony which all must abide by.

So we need to bring back public beatings (canings) ?

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#118

Post by JohnBooty »

JasonFruit wrote: post #73
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

I think you're describing the Midwest. People clear sidewalks and driveways for each other after a snow, unasked and uncompensated. People let each other off public transportation before crowding on. And... there are drunks everywhere. So two out of three. But what I'm aiming at is this: in less urbanized areas of the United States, the sort of shared ideas that allow successful coexistence exist. It's largely the ma…

My experience in America (even up here in the "mean" northeast) is that we do tend to treat our families and neighbors very decently, which suggests that we're not exactly devoid of compassion.

However, I believe this is different than what the parent poster is talking about.

The parent poster refers not to a generalized lack of compassion from Americans, but a peculiar lack of respect for shared, public spaces.

I think it's an interesting distinction.

It's like we have a very focused version of communalism. Most of us instinctively want to help those in our "clans" - friends, neighbors, family. But we see much less value in places and institutions that are shared by the wider public: libraries, streets, town squares, etc.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#119

Post by diordiderot »

llanowarelves wrote: post #115
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

People don't like to hear it, but a high-trust society is enabled by homogeneity. Look at Japan's demographics, and opposition to foreign religions, languages, etc. They don't allow "the world" to recreate itself inside them, and the conflict and distrust (Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam) that that brings.

I hope you don't mean racial homogeneity, because that would be a load of _equine excrement_

If you didn't, homogeneity really isn't the best word to convey the idea that social trust comes from long-standing, slow moving cultural traditions.

Even then there are counter examples but it could be one of those 'necessary but not sufficient' situations

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#120

Post by dmix »

dmix wrote: post #69
tkgally wrote: post #58

The linked article focuses on the physical features of Tokyo. For me, even more attractive is the economic dynamism that they enable. I moved to Tokyo in 1983 and have lived there and in nearby Yokohama ever since. Until 2005, I worked as a freelancer—mostly translation, but also advertising copywriting and other related occupations. I did my work at home, but I was often out and about in Tokyo to visit clients, atte…

Like Hemingway in post-WW1 Paris or Hunter S Thompson et al in 1960s Haight Ashbury, one part of it is the city/neighbourhoods, one part culture, and the biggest thing is the people who create the culture and local businesses that make the neighbourhoods interesting. If you hang out with interesting people (or in modern times share their information networks) then you'll find these cultural hot spots. It's worth it f…

To add: I recently read a book about the the history of cocktails about how a few big European cities experienced a second cultural boom (after WW1) when the US started Prohibition in the 1930s. Most of the best bartenders moved to Paris/London/etc to open bars and ply their trade, which spread cocktail culture widely and created some legendary bars in Europe.

A good example of how local political decisions can scare away talent and culture (with good intentions of course).

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