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Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

economist.com

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Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#31

Post by airza »

blue039 wrote: post #24
BMc2020 wrote: post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend t…

Showing a causal relationship here would involve explaining why many other western countries with much more relaxed policing laws also seem to be safer than the US. I would guess a more likely reason is that more foot traffic reduces crime.

Also purely anecdotally, I have been let off with a warning in Japan before; certainly their prisons are draconian (or so I’ve heard). I’m also not sure how you could be arrested there for public intoxication; I’ve only seen police confront a drunk person who was actively trying to fight someone. Compared to countless workers or college kids passed out on the sidewalk…

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#32

Post by Aeolun »

throwaway821909 wrote: post #14
renewiltord wrote: post #5

An absolutely amazing city. And fascinating in that in this more collectivist society you have actual individualism whereas most American towns are heavily conformist and enforce this through law. A curious glimpse into the fact that societies are not simply collectivist or individualist but so or not so across multiple axes. One thing that I find interesting is how much laws influence these things and how a society…

I guess you've heard it before but “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” I don't know whether it's true or not... hard to prove there's causation and not just random cycles of improvement and decline due to luck or external factors - the higher you climb, the easier it is to fall.

I think it’s easier to say those things in hindsight. Obviously, if someone created good times, they must’ve been strong men. If the times are getting worse, it must be because whoever is in power is weak.

I’m more inclined to say that when times are harder, it becomes easier for fortunes to shift, and a lot of the regulations that would otherwise stifle growth are lifted (either because nobody cares, or because the law makes it so).

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#33

Post by IncandescentGas »

blue039 wrote: post #24
BMc2020 wrote: post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend t…

> Statistically criminals will commit crimes again if let out even on minor infractions. Japan seems to have realized this and capitalized on it.

What a worthless bit of nonsensical rhetoric.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#34

Post by nuc1e0n »

There would need to be a much higher level of societal trust than there has been justification to have in much of the world today. Add to that Tokyo's situation is built on a lot of suffering in silence. Tokyo is nice to visit, but the locals aren't nearly so keen. As a tourist you wouldn't see that so much. Of course that's not to say the world couldn't still learn a lot from the place. Besides, with many countries having children below replacement levels will such situations be necessary? Even for Japan perhaps not in the decades to come.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#36

Post by 3np »

blue039 wrote: post #24
BMc2020 wrote: post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend t…

TF are you on about?

> Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe

Public intoxication is not a crime (or likely to get you into trouble) in the first place. Stay out of operating vehicles or heavy machinery and being intoxicated is not going to get you into trouble.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#37

Post by ilyt »

blue039 wrote: post #24
BMc2020 wrote: post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend t…

That's almost uniquely USA (and 3rd world countries) problem, many EU cities are just as safe but don't enjoy such charming culture like Tokyo

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#38

Post by another_story »

blue039 wrote: post #24
BMc2020 wrote: post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend t…

Japan is safe in part because theyre culturally homogenous. That culture drills in a sense of obligation to the point of being oppressive. Obligation of the children to the parents, the parents to the company and even the company to society at large. It creates stability, but often at the expense of flexibility. Then there's the sense of shame when you fail to live up to that obligation.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#39

Post by rocknor »

rat87 wrote: post #27
throwaway821909 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you've heard it before but “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” I don't know whether it's true or not... hard to prove there's causation and not just random cycles of improvement and decline due to luck or external factors - the higher you climb, the easier it is to fall.

It does sound a bit like fascist nonsense. On the other hand I do have to admit to people often become stronger to when they need to in order to survive. Look at the Ukrainians. Still I'd rather they were living calm and peaceful lives maybe with a better economy instead of having to be brave and strong to survive.

And how exactly is that "fascist", can you explain? The word has no meaning now.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#40

Post by alexchantavy »

dangus wrote: post #6

The best parts of any city are the places where cars aren't allowed or are minimized/not the primary method of getting around. The most economically productive, high-demand areas of any city are the ones at walking scale where humans enjoy spending their time. A lot of infrastructure planners work to optimize traffic flow without much consideration to the actual humans existing in an area. Tokyo doesn't have this pro…

The lax zoning laws (at least compared to the US) allow mixed use so you have more things within walking distance. This was a fascinating video on it: https://youtu.be/wfm2xCKOCNk
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