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Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

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Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#21
post #6

The best parts of any city are the places where cars aren't allowed or are minimized/not the primary method of getting around. The most economically productive, high-demand areas of any city are the ones at walking scale where humans enjoy spending their time. A lot of infrastructure planners work to optimize traffic flow without much consideration to the actual humans existing in an area. Tokyo doesn't have this pro…

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Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#22

Haven’t read the article yet but I do love that cozy looking image.

I wonder if Japan has something like ADA or other types of electrical/fire code that would prevent places that right from being built.

Not so much for ADA but certainly for firecodes. When a Yokocho inevitably burns down, it can’t really be replaced.

A newer version can look like this[1], an above ground floor of an office or shopping building hosting a bunch of tiny bars.

it’s still pretty good, but is not as charming as a bunch of old and unique places that only still exist because they’ve been grandfathered into an existing yokocho.

[1] https://digjapan.travel/en/blog/id=10637

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#23
post #6

The best parts of any city are the places where cars aren't allowed or are minimized/not the primary method of getting around. The most economically productive, high-demand areas of any city are the ones at walking scale where humans enjoy spending their time. A lot of infrastructure planners work to optimize traffic flow without much consideration to the actual humans existing in an area. Tokyo doesn't have this pro…

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Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#24
post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend the night in a drunk tank if you're rowdy, or sent safely on your way with a loved one if you're cooperative.

Through extremely tough laws streets become safer. It's opposite most of America in the sense that we have a large degree of leniency built into our laws that seems to be getting more lenient every election cycle. Stuff like no bail, letting people off with warnings, "court dates" that you're responsible for showing up to would NEVER fly in Japan. Statistically criminals will commit crimes again if let out even on minor infractions. Japan seems to have realized this and capitalized on it. Speaking of capital...their capital punishment system is pretty crazy. Their prisons are also draconian even when compared to the garbage prisons we have in the US. Their closest approximation may be Russian prison in it's style of punishment. The sheer level of fear people in Japan must live with when faced with these punishments is clearly enough to keep society polite.

Japan is one of the ultimate "tough on crime" examples in a western-approaching nation...and it works. Well. People have this idyllic view of Japan for some reason and it's understandable why. From a distance it's beautiful. I'm not convinced the tradeoffs to achieve their society are worth it (extremely tough anti-crime law, collectivism, salarymanship, etc). Moreover, I don't think the people who idealize (really, fetishize) Japan want these changes either.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#25

Haven’t read the article yet but I do love that cozy looking image.

I wonder if Japan has something like ADA or other types of electrical/fire code that would prevent places that right from being built.

The accessibility issue is usually around width of the spaces themselves.

In the US the ADA requires a minimum 12ft (~4m) path and often smaller places in Japan are not quite that wide.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#26

An absolutely amazing city. And fascinating in that in this more collectivist society you have actual individualism whereas most American towns are heavily conformist and enforce this through law. A curious glimpse into the fact that societies are not simply collectivist or individualist but so or not so across multiple axes. One thing that I find interesting is how much laws influence these things and how a society…

Japanese people are significantly more individualist than Americans. You can have any weird hobby you want and they’ll ignore you. They produce more cultural exports per capita than the US does too.

The stereotypical collectivist society is a better description of Korea. A better way to explain Japan is it’s like England but Asian.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#27

An absolutely amazing city. And fascinating in that in this more collectivist society you have actual individualism whereas most American towns are heavily conformist and enforce this through law. A curious glimpse into the fact that societies are not simply collectivist or individualist but so or not so across multiple axes. One thing that I find interesting is how much laws influence these things and how a society…

I guess you've heard it before but “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” I don't know whether it's true or not... hard to prove there's causation and not just random cycles of improvement and decline due to luck or external factors - the higher you climb, the easier it is to fall.

It does sound a bit like fascist nonsense. On the other hand I do have to admit to people often become stronger to when they need to in order to survive. Look at the Ukrainians. Still I'd rather they were living calm and peaceful lives maybe with a better economy instead of having to be brave and strong to survive.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#28
post #24
post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend t…

I have a feeling you've never actually been there.

They do have an issue with forced confessions, but you're much more likely to be arrested or worse (shot) in the USA for no reason.

But beyond that, this is an over simplification of something that stems from multiple things, not some singular root reason.

And if you want data, look no further than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... for why your take is absolutely bonkers.

We have the highest incarceration rate by far, so why aren't we safer than Japan?

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#29
post #24
post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend t…

What bull. It’s certainly true that the Japanese legal system is draconian, but if you are a marginally decent citizen you will never encounter the police in your life (beyond their normally helpful role as public servants).

If there were any punishments for public intoxication half of Tokyo would be locked up. What is probably punishable is public intoxication in the western way (e.g. agressive displays, public intimidation and other obnoxious behavior).

The streets are safe here because nobody feels the need to make them unsafe. Punishment from the legal system doesn’t factor into it. I mean, I guess to some extend it does. If you are not interested in keeping the streets safe, and add to the feeling of danger/unsafety, the system will come down on you like a hammer.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#30
post #24
post #20

Tokyo today is unusually liveable— safe , clean, functional and vibrant—for a megacity of its size: 37m in its greater metropolitan area, including 14m people in the central wards. Safe streets are the key.

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend t…

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