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Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

phoronix.com

21–30 of 102 posts

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#21

I was going to say something about it being 10 years now since Apple made high DPI screens mainstream. Windows still doesn't have it working 100% yet.

On the specific topic here, fractional scaling, macOS gets it disastrously wrong, only supporting downscaling, which means that it’s impossible to get pixel-perfect output on fractional scales, which are the norm on most of their devices. I seriously can’t comprehend how they ended up going that way, given that they were the ones in a position to force developers to get things right, far more than Windows, but no, they just didn’t even try. On the contrary, Windows has worked with fractional scaling from the start of its high-DPI story, and although it did take a while to get it right in all circumstances (I think the last pieces came in 2017, with DPI_AWARENESS_CONTEXT_PER_MONITOR_AWARE_V2 and also incidentally GDI scaling to automatically improve most older, DPI-unaware apps), it’s been robust since on all but a few badly-made apps that claim DPI-awareness but actually lack it (and you can forcibly change how they behave if necessary).

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#22
post #2

I wonder if this merge will improve the odd fractional scaling issues I've been having with my framework laptop. Blurry text and windows for electron apps really sours the experience of using the wayland with the laptops resolution.

This merge is not going to improve anything by itself, in the same vein as update to HTTP protocol is not going to improve any existing HTTP servers and clients.

Protocol merges require compositor implementations to be ready ahead of merge.

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#23

I was going to say something about it being 10 years now since Apple made high DPI screens mainstream. Windows still doesn't have it working 100% yet.

On the specific topic here, fractional scaling, macOS gets it disastrously wrong, only supporting downscaling, which means that it’s impossible to get pixel-perfect output on fractional scales, which are the norm on most of their devices. I seriously can’t comprehend how they ended up going that way, given that they were the ones in a position to force developers to get things right, far more than Windows, but no, th…

macOS got it "wrong" because their own displays were all integer scaled. They don't care about the rest.

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#24
post #3

I still use X11, where and rely on the following features (amongst others): -taking screenshots -auto keyboard/mouse scripting with xdotool -not have unnecessary mouse/keyboard to monitor delay -4K fullscreen, windowed fullscreen and windowed gaming with nvidia drivers, for native and steam proton games -choosing to have vsync enabled or disabled in games -EDIT: I should another important one for me: xclip, read from…

Just do yourself a favor and stick with using what already works. Don't upgrade to the new shiny thing unless you already know the reasons why you want to.

Among all the other technical issues, Wayland devs have an attitude issue. Users asked for fractional scaling for years and were faced with flat refusals and insulting quips from the wayland developers. The only reason they've added it now is because Valve asked them for it. Wayland devs think users are worms and corporations are gods.

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#25
post #3

I still use X11, where and rely on the following features (amongst others): -taking screenshots -auto keyboard/mouse scripting with xdotool -not have unnecessary mouse/keyboard to monitor delay -4K fullscreen, windowed fullscreen and windowed gaming with nvidia drivers, for native and steam proton games -choosing to have vsync enabled or disabled in games -EDIT: I should another important one for me: xclip, read from…

> I still use X11, where and rely on the following features To which I would add: (1) taking screenshots from the command line (xwd) (2) moving windows around from the command line (xwit) (3) keyboard-free copy-paste between different programs: select to copy, middle-click to paste (4) global indicator of where my cursor is (xeyes) (5) define global key combinations that launch programs (xbindkeys) (6) globally confi…

[deleted]

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the specific topic here, fractional scaling, macOS gets it disastrously wrong, only supporting downscaling, which means that it’s impossible to get pixel-perfect output on fractional scales, which are the norm on most of their devices. I seriously can’t comprehend how they ended up going that way, given that they were the ones in a position to force developers to get things right, far more than Windows, but no, th…

macOS got it "wrong" because their own displays were all integer scaled. They don't care about the rest.

I don’t have any Apple hardware, but my recollection from seeing those who do a few years back (including when they first introduced the Retina displays) is that all of these laptops were defaulting to non-integer scales, and at least a little uncomfortable at 2×.

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This merge is not going to improve anything by itself, in the same vein as update to HTTP protocol is not going to improve any existing HTTP servers and clients.

Protocol merges require compositor implementations to be ready ahead of merge.

They require two implementations. It's not going to help if these implementations are in the compositors nobody cares.

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#28
post #17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Wayland and it has screenshot and screen recording tools. I don't notice any delay on keyboard or mouse entry across multiple monitors. Can't answer the rest.

He is referring to input lag: the delay from input to visible change on the monitor. The double buffering and compositor step added by Wayland adds some delay. You may not personally notice it, or be used to it, but it's always there. Some people are more bothered by input lag than others, and there are so many compounding factors today that make it worse than ever. It's not only the double buffering in graphics subs…

It seems your subjective feeling is not reflected in measurements. At least for kwin wayland is as fast as uncomposited x11

https://zamundaaa.github.io/wayland/2021/12/14/about-gaming-...

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#29
post #3

I still use X11, where and rely on the following features (amongst others): -taking screenshots -auto keyboard/mouse scripting with xdotool -not have unnecessary mouse/keyboard to monitor delay -4K fullscreen, windowed fullscreen and windowed gaming with nvidia drivers, for native and steam proton games -choosing to have vsync enabled or disabled in games -EDIT: I should another important one for me: xclip, read from…

> I still use X11, where and rely on the following features To which I would add: (1) taking screenshots from the command line (xwd) (2) moving windows around from the command line (xwit) (3) keyboard-free copy-paste between different programs: select to copy, middle-click to paste (4) global indicator of where my cursor is (xeyes) (5) define global key combinations that launch programs (xbindkeys) (6) globally confi…

adding mouse gestures with easystroke

Re: Wayland Protocol Finally Ready for Fractional Scaling

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the specific topic here, fractional scaling, macOS gets it disastrously wrong, only supporting downscaling, which means that it’s impossible to get pixel-perfect output on fractional scales, which are the norm on most of their devices. I seriously can’t comprehend how they ended up going that way, given that they were the ones in a position to force developers to get things right, far more than Windows, but no, th…

macOS got it "wrong" because their own displays were all integer scaled. They don't care about the rest.

Except that they haven't been setting their displays to integer scale for a few generations now.
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