Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

aljazeera.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 407 posts

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#31

Post by Ekaros »

peter-m80 wrote: post #26

Honest question: Can someone explain me why using gold instead of dollars to buy oil isn't the same as sell gold for dollars and use those dollars to buy oil?

For two parties to transact in dollars they need either to physically hold large amounts of dollars. Or have access to some shared ledger that is accounting system where transactions can happen.

Say A, B, C account. A sells gold and get dollars from account B to account A. And now they can buy oil from owner of account C.

But who owns and runs these accounts or the transactions between them? One option is SWIFT system. Which Russia got excluded in some capacity from. As such it is clear that system cannot be trusted. Value of dollars there are very unlikely to be good for long term. And same applies to any accounts in banks in western influence sphere.

Thus directly transacting is better option in long run. For any country that wants to keep their economy stable.

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#32

Post by meowfly »

ur-whale wrote: post #17
dragonelite wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wondering what will replace it, maybe the Brics coin a basket of currencies and commodities. A bit like Keynes Bancor concept if i'm not mistaken time will tell what sort of currencies the Russians and Chinese will introduce for BRICS, SCO and BRI nations.

The Chinese Renminbi (Yuan) is a good candidate to quickly get on par with the USD. If they manage it properly that is, as in: not print mountains of it, and not using it to enforce their political aims. They're currently actively busy making the Renminbi reserve and default trading currency in much of Asia. And, as a last resort, there's always Bitcoin and gold, although, as Ghana will discover (unless they make the…

RMB is a terrible candidate for a reserve currency. If you are concerned about the US meddling with their currency, you will not pick a historically manipulated currency like the RMB. Moreover, in China transactions over 8k USD have to be reported and there is a 50k USD currency exchange limit. The governments managing of outflows hardly gives confidence that the currency is one people want to hold.

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#33

Post by creakingstairs »

ur-whale wrote: post #6

The hegemony of the dollar as a reserve currency is finally coming to an end, and while many will disagree with my opinion, I believe it's a very good thing for the world. The US has been allowed by the rest of the world to use the dollar as a weapon since the end of WWII, specifically using it to impose unilateral economic sanctions on anyone they don't like, thereby flouting or downright ignoring other countries so…

> The hegemony of the dollar as a reserve currency is finally coming to an end, and while many will disagree with my opinion, I believe it's a very good thing for the world.

Yeah ideally, I agree that some competition might be good to keep US in check. Chinese Yuan seems most likely at this point.

But I think the world would be in a “worse” place when the break happens. Purely due to geopolitical instability and all the second order effects that is bound to happen when US hegemony ends.

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#34

Post by RedBeetDeadpool »

peter-m80 wrote: post #26

Honest question: Can someone explain me why using gold instead of dollars to buy oil isn't the same as sell gold for dollars and use those dollars to buy oil?

Because there are no dollars involved. If they do as you suggest, at the start:

A holds gold.

B holds dollars.

C holds oil.

A trades B, gold for dollars. A holds dollars, B holds gold.

A trades C, dollars for oil. A holds oil, C holds dollars.

After your suggested trade result:

A holds oil.

B holds gold.

C holds dollars.

If there is no "middle man", party A gets oil, party C gets gold. Party B keeps their dollars. End result:

A holds oil.

B holds dollars.

C holds gold.

Assuming "B" is USA, USA doesn't get to export its inflation/funding for stimulus checks/student debt/pension crisis/(or in trump era - a wall that does nothing) away to "C", whoever that ends up being, meanwhile, Ghana gets the oil it wants, and "C" gets currency without having to pay for the choices of politicians they have no control over.

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#35

Post by senectus1 »

pwm wrote: post #12

I know a lot of people dislike bitcoin here but I'm wondering (with the huge assumption that its value stabilises over time) would it not actually be a better solution? Not just from an obvious logistical but also from an environmental perspective? I'd imagine gold mining to be much more destructive (both to nature and to human life).

The crypto market (including btc) is incredibly fragile.

It's also got way too shallow a gene pool (meaning too few hold too much).

Until it gets spread further and wider it can't be relied on for much.

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#36

Post by speedylight »

Isinlor wrote: post #30
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could this lead to a chain reactions, were countries abandon the dollar and the dollar looses in value, in return leading to more countries abandon it? A world were the most stabilizing region and its currency become temporary hegemon?

Ghana GDP is 77.59 billion USD. That's almost 2 Twitters :) . Ghana is not triggering any chain reactions.

Lucky for them, otherwise the US would’ve sent some freedom and democracy their way.

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#37

Post by _kbh_ »

ur-whale wrote: post #18
pjc50 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's sanctions were as a result of their invasion of Ukraine and they'd still be a part of the normal financial system otherwise. It's nothing to do with petrodollars.

Apologies, but your reading of the situation is shallow. What do you think led Vlad to invade? The US has been mounting a proxy war against Russia in Ukraine for the past 20 years, one they're ready - barring political upheaval in the US - to fight down to the last European.

> What do you think led Vlad to invade?

There are vast natural resources in Ukraine which threatens Russias place as the gas station to the world.

They also have imperialistic ambitions to try and restore what they see as the glory days of the USSR.

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#38

Post by djbebs »

pjc50 wrote: post #15
4pkjai wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason they want to avoid the US dollar is so that they do not need to obey US sanctions. From what I understand, if you send US dollars around the world, they need to go through a US bank. All US banks must obey US government sanctions.

Ghana are not subject to sanctions?

Right now. Can you guarantee that will always be the case we'll into the future?

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#39

Post by Isinlor »

ur-whale wrote: post #18
pjc50 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's sanctions were as a result of their invasion of Ukraine and they'd still be a part of the normal financial system otherwise. It's nothing to do with petrodollars.

Apologies, but your reading of the situation is shallow. What do you think led Vlad to invade? The US has been mounting a proxy war against Russia in Ukraine for the past 20 years, one they're ready - barring political upheaval in the US - to fight down to the last European.

Polish and Ukrainian economies were exactly the same size in 1991 after collapse of the Soviet Union. In 2021 Polish economy was 3 times bigger than Ukrainian and almost 2 millions of Ukrainians emigrated to Poland for work.

Very clearly Poland done some things right, while Ukraine did not.

The one important thing that we have done right appears to be immediate turning towards West after collapsing communist regime in 1989. Joining NATO and EU.

Poland never wanted to be in the Russian sphere of influence. We have spilled rivers of blood in countless wars, uprisings and protests against Russian imperialism in past 300 years.

Ukraine means "borderland". Historically Ukraine was in a constant state of wars between Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Swedish Empire and Russian Empire since before USA even existed.

So, historically Ukraine was always split between West and East. All regions of Ukraine very clearly wanted independence in 1991. But modern Western Ukraine wanted to join EU and follow Polish path to prosperity. That's why Maidan protests started in late 2013.

Putin invaded Ukraine because he believed in a false story that Ukrainians wanted to be Little-Russians fed to him by FSB agents (KGB successor). And in order to keep Ukrainians from the Western path to prosperity. Ukraine as prosperous as Poland, meaning more prosperous than Russia, would threaten his regime and Russian idea of greatness.

But Russian speaking Ukrainians sympathetic to Russia never asked for their whole lives to be upended and to be bombed by Russia into oblivion. Ukraine is no longer split. This war is their war of independence, true nation forming event. Their new found hatred towards Russia and Russians is enormous and that leaves them with the only other direction - towards West.

Re: Ghana plans to buy oil with gold instead of dollars

#40

Post by sys_64738 »

kaladin_1 wrote: post #3

Interesting the pressure is increasing. More and more countries questioning why they need to base their foreign transaction on the US Dollar. Could this mounting unrest be as a result of the seeming inability of the US Federal bank in checking inflation of the US Dollar. Also, some of these Nations can no longer determine what benefit it is to them is using the US Dollar as their reserve currency and trading currency…

You ultimately need to pay in some common currency so which common currency do you trust to be secure from inflationary pressures or government interference? Do you trust the Euro to not implode? Do you trust the Chinese Communists with their Yen manipulation? The US dollar is the last currency standing after all others are disqualified.
Post reply on HN