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‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

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Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#211

Post by shadowfoxx »

sokoloff wrote: post #204
shadowfoxx wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is - Our doctors visits already feel like DMV visits? I've lived all over VA - Richmond, Fairfax, Alexandria. All felt like DMV. In Michigan now. Feels like DMV. Thing is, too - by all accounts I can tell - people are largely satisfied with their State Healthcare, in those places that have it (Whichever form it takes). Sure people have critiques. But some people saying something can be an issue is not the same…

I would rather have a colonoscopy than go to the DMV here. My last colonoscopy was easily scheduled, had excellent communication, showed concern for my experience, and took a little under 2 hours on the day of. Few of my DMV encounters go that pleasantly. My regular doctor’s office schedules appointments easily online, keeps to the schedule, communicates well and answers questions online within 24 hours, will follow…

I'm glad your experience with your colonoscopy was stellar. I just firmly believe everyone should have that experience. We can compare to the DMV all we'd like but the reality is that there isn't any reason the Single-payer system you're presenting is the one'd we'd have to go with? Public with a private option. Not Government 'run' but Government involvement in prices... not trying to split hairs on which system just pointing out that there's a lot of for improvement within our system.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#212

Post by orev »

josephcsible wrote: post #136
orev wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a culture or mindset that prioritizes short term benefit/feelings over long term benefits even when there are other options. For example, things like getting a dog, signing up for cable TV, getting an unnecessarily expensive new phone, spending money on going out to eat, etc. While there are definitely elements of spending badly, this idea that they spend money on the “wrong” things gets dangerously close to dehuma…

> Having cable TV gives you access to unlimited entertainment. So does having Internet access, and I don't think very many people pay for cable TV but not Internet. > A smartphone gives you access to all known human knowledge, and is essentially required now to access benefits, banking, etc. GP said "an unnecessarily expensive new phone", not "a smartphone". A $160 Samsung Galaxy A03s is perfectly capable of doing al…

Which I already addressed, and then expanded on the bigger point that’s often being made by this line of thinking:

> While there are definitely elements of spending badly, this idea that they spend money on the “wrong” things gets dangerously close to dehumanizing the impoverished.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#213

Post by anonymouskimmer »

Mezzie wrote: post #162
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would buying gold or silver coins or collectibles count as savings? If not there are other items that can be purchased new or used that have a high resale value and thus could be used as a store of savings without actually being cash, though the only affordable one on this list, for a poor person, would be the Ann Taylor clothes: https://blog.cheapism.com/best-resale-value-products-14004/#... Obviously not a solution…

It depends on the assistance program, but yeah, this is one reason poor people make 'stupid' financial choices. Resaleability is a concern in my purchasing habits as someone whose financial life is likely to fluctuate throughout my life due to disability. Jewelry is the classic go to for women.

I'm wondering if a person in your position could set up a living trust to be the official "owner" of your assets, and thus get around the savings and income limitations.

Probably not, or rich people would already have abused the system, and a lawyer who could give advice on whether it was legal or not would cost too much.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#214

Post by josephcsible »

orev wrote: post #212
josephcsible wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having cable TV gives you access to unlimited entertainment. So does having Internet access, and I don't think very many people pay for cable TV but not Internet. > A smartphone gives you access to all known human knowledge, and is essentially required now to access benefits, banking, etc. GP said "an unnecessarily expensive new phone", not "a smartphone". A $160 Samsung Galaxy A03s is perfectly capable of doing al…

Which I already addressed, and then expanded on the bigger point that’s often being made by this line of thinking: > While there are definitely elements of spending badly, this idea that they spend money on the “wrong” things gets dangerously close to dehumanizing the impoverished.

How is that dangerously close to dehumanizing?

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#215

Post by woodruffw »

treis wrote: post #192
woodruffw wrote: post #70

It’s a bummer to see many people on here not respond to the two phenomena that the author explicitly identifies: fear and shame. Nothing good comes from shaming struggling people for making short-term financial decisions. It only breeds more shame, makes people afraid to express their needs, and pushes the poor even further out of the public’s eye.

I kind of feel like this is a self selecting population. In that those that feel shame are going to do something about their situation and escape. Because I've definitely seen some shameful shit done by people that appeared quite shameless.

The author’s entire point is that shame is self-reinforcing, not constructive. You can’t shame gay people into being straight, and you can’t shame poor people into “escaping” poverty.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#216

Post by nescioquid »

retrac wrote: post #71
pflenker wrote: post #12

One of the things that suck most about being poor is that you need to have money in order to save money. You need to have enough money to buy a certain level of quality, and if you don't have it, you're forced to buy cheap stuff that breaks more easily (thus spending more money in total). I found this aspect hard to understand for others, the attitude often seems to be: "you don't have to be poor, you simply need to…

The lack of reward for planning (by virtue of not having the resources since they're always insufficient and tied up in more immediate concerns) similarly promotes a very detached and immediate lifestyle. I have $50. $50 can mean I have fun tonight. $50 does nothing for me next week except maybe let me buy some food, which I can probably scrape together another way. So I'm going to have some fun tonight. The notion t…

Had humans the life-span of a mayfly, it might be tolerable to have this discussion every season.

Nearly 30 years ago, Clinton's "welfare as we know it" reforms were being normalized by the likes of the New Yorker/Atlantic/NPR smart set who were doing the heavy "interpretive labor" of explaining why poor trash waste hundreds of dollars (careful, those are 1990's dollars!) on crap like track suits and sneakers which ultimately reduced to so much status-quo-affirming "empathy". These discussions focused primarily on black people, not more generally on poor, disenfranchised people. The message was that you needn't worry about it because it was a "minority" problem.

Since then, how has the conversation permuted? It has simply become more performative and more mired in the vocabulary of race. Now that it is a problem of race, not class, one merely needs to be "empathetic", which, incidentally, is free.

During Clinton's reign, the discussion about the regression to a society with classes like the 30's (upstairs/downstairs) was handled more abstrusely than the easy pre-chewed treacle about racism/welfare (much easier to mouth platitudes or diatribes about black people or the villian du jour than address the fundamental unfairness between capital and labor). Whatever is systemic has to do with power, and power cares not a whit what you look like, how you talk, or what hole you prefer to fuck or be fucked in. People need to stop looking at the color or location of their fuck-hole and simply find solidarity in the fact they are fucked.

But this, like the possibility of the public lending-library being invented today, is nil.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#217

Post by bryanrasmussen »

dionidium wrote: post #120
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right nobody ever gets ejaculated into by anyone they didn't want ejaculating into them, nobody ever ejaculates into someone when doing well and then loses job, child has problems, one of partners dies and not able to take care of child etc. A person is in some way a sort of god that has complete control over the world and can only be brought low by making a 'bad' choice.

This is nihilism. We can acknowledge that some people have better luck than others without entirely rejecting the notion that there are good and bad choices.

well, it seems more to me that you do not acknowledge that there are things outside one's control, that good choices can only surmount so much.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#218

Post by lelanthran »

Mezzie wrote: post #101
lelanthran wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have a lot to learn. Start by reading the article, and understand that the effects of growing up that way are hard to overcome - psychologically. The author has a Ph.D and still suffers from it. The author grew up poor and has a Phd? Sounds like all the arguments here about how it is impossible to escape poverty are at odds with that fact. -- someone who grew up poor

I have an advanced degree (not PhD, Master's) and I ended up poor again. Disability! If you grow up poor, you can make it out as long as nothing goes wrong. You have no grace. The clock's ticking. Oh, and you'd best be prepared to leave your family, friends, and anyone who has helped you to drown.

> Disability! If you grow up poor, you can make it out as long as nothing goes wrong. You have no grace. The clock's ticking.

Hyperbole. As long as nothing major goes wrong. Lot's of things go wrong. As long as:

1. There is shelter,

2. There is rice and beans,

3. There is school,

The outcome looks good.

> Oh, and you'd best be prepared to leave your family, friends, and anyone who has helped you to drown.

Of course - if your family and friends cannot come with you to university, you should immediately give back the scholarship money and reject the acceptance letter! /s

Honestly, you come off slightly illogical (Is your MS in the humanities by any chance?). Your argument, taken to its logical conclusion, i.e. that you must not go to university unless all your family and friends can do so to, is frankly stupid.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#219

Post by lelanthran »

tester756 wrote: post #197
lelanthran wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have a lot to learn. Start by reading the article, and understand that the effects of growing up that way are hard to overcome - psychologically. The author has a Ph.D and still suffers from it. The author grew up poor and has a Phd? Sounds like all the arguments here about how it is impossible to escape poverty are at odds with that fact. -- someone who grew up poor

How many people who grew poor reached PhD? 0.000x%? 0.x%? 1%? It raises bar

I'm not arguing that poverty doesn't raise the bar, I'm saying that the arguments being presented in this thread are that poverty is impossible to escape.

Those of use that have escaped it know that you have to work harder for the same result, but this constant argument about poverty being inescapable is now tired and worn.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#220

Post by pertymcpert »

bluedino wrote: post #200
EliRivers wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life with no money and the perpetual fear of being evicted and living in a car with your children until they're taken away, or being fired for taking a day off sick because you work a bad job with no protections, or not being able to pay the electric and making a game of huddling together with your children at night for fear that they'll freeze, this is being poor. Learn to live poor? Learn to live this life? People…

Does it sound better if I say "live within their means"?

No, you still don’t understand, at all.
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