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Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

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Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#31

Post by TheSOB88 »

badclient wrote: post #27
scottschulthess wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's inefficient about it? Usually this doesn't work if your process sucks. The way I've seen it work well is: Designer starts on the project a week ahead of programmer. Gathers requirements (with the programmer tagging along). Does paper sketches which get a general a-ok from everyone. Does html prototype, ideally already in rails. Hands off to developer, developer wires up. Over time they iterate together on the…

So in your model there is only a designer and a developer? At my work, we have someone for each specialty: 1. design 2. html 3. backend like php 4. js. Your designer seems to do both (1) and (2) which is more manageable and something I've had work well. Likewise, your programmer seems to do both (3) and (4). The problems arise when you need to tweak a small feature. You end up needing four-five people(if you count pr…

Just being nitpicky, but I think you misread the OP. He said one person does design and HTML, which is exactly what you're saying.

Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#32

Post by wpietri »

I think the mistake is in structuring the company so that people have to be awesome on both axes. Either that, or so they're forbidden to become good at both.

Every developer is a designer. (You can't make something without thinking about it at least a little.) Every designer can be a developer if they want. Both skills take plenty of practice.

Nobody is likely to be 100% amazing at both, but that doesn't matter: a lot of day-to-day work is pretty mundane, so nobody has to be amazing all the time. As long as you have somebody great that you collaborate with frequently, you can still get a great product, and everybody gets to up their game over time.

Skill-based division of labor is fine for assembly-line products, but for iterative, creative work (which is what all startups are), I think you need intense collaboration, which requires broad skills. That's why IDEO, a design powerhouse, looks for what they call t-shaped people: http://chiefexecutive.net/ideo-ceo-tim-brown-t-shaped-stars-...

It's a cheesy name, but I think the idea's spot on.

Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#33

Post by evlapix »

I recently applied at a YC funded startup. Their job description had the most random combination of front-end/back-end technologies that exactly matched my recent focuses, and said absolutely nothing about design. I considered myself extremely qualified.

I received a call the following day and was told I was a top candidate. As the interviews progressed with each founder (3 of them), I started to get the impression that they also wanted a designer. I was super careful about managing their expectations and let them know I wouldn't count on my design skills for anything more than "not ugly".

I didn't get an offer.

This is the second time in my very remote, limited experience I've speculated a startup hiring stereotype that has later been echoed in the community. I've convinced myself that both indicate the lack of experience that startup founders have in hiring. Yet another reason I suspect founders can't find talent. After all, what kind of established, motivated and passionate, developer/designer would want to bet their livelihood on a startup that doesn't pay well, isn't clear about its expectations, and shows signs of inexperience?

Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#34

Post by agilebyte »

asolove wrote: post #9

I think the problem is not that one person can't have both of these skills, but that it is hard to play both roles on the same project unless you have a lot of discipline. The engineering mindset and the UX design mindset optimize for different things. Even if you are excellent at both, it helps to have someone else forcing you to get the UX right when you're doing the engineering work, and to make the engineering po…

Engineering and UX can go hand in hand. What clashes is User-Centred UX and (sometimes) business objectives. When engineers and UX people work together, it is bliss as both provide a piece of the puzzle, can't see why one person can't do both.

Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#35

Post by lubutu »

rguzman wrote: post #5

i don't think designers, per se, are that valuable. this line of thought just stems from the conflation of graphic design and interface design. the skill in demand is the latter. to be good at it one needs to be able to be proficient in html, css, javascript, and have basic abilities in whatever server-side technologies are in use. so, yes, these folks will be hard to find. just like any other good engineer, they'll…

When people talk about 'interface design', it seems they rarely mean anything more than where on the page to place the navigation... The crux being that we all assume a set of priors, and everyone asks "how do we make doing this easier?" instead of the more fundamental "what does the user want done?" I don't think that skill is necessarily related to other forms of design -- it's just a case of taking a step back.

Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#36

Post by jsavimbi »

sandieman wrote: post #11
aspir wrote: post #2

Every freelancer in my area is, by this definition, a "Desingineer." I'm in the midwest, so there's almost no other way to get work other than go full stack. Obviously, some are better at the back end and some are better designers, but they have to do it all. Honestly, this reinforces the issue that startups do a poor job of recruiting outside of their 20 mile radius. For example, its early in the office, and I still…

have built a company in the middle of the country as well, and know this freelance type. Typically they are "okay" at design and "okay" at development. They work well for local small businesses but not for startups looking for top caliber design.

Most startups aren't looking for, and shouldn't be looking for, top caliber design. It costs too much and usually provides no measurable value for an immature product.

Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#37

Post by peteretep »

schraeds wrote: post #30

I am proficient in: Photoshop, Illustrator, Expression Blend, Sencha, HTML/CSS/Java, WPF, ExtJS. I possess: Taste, attention to detail and aesthetics, an understanding of human factors as they relate to computer interaction. What does that make me? :)

Webmonkey.

Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#39

Post by agilebyte »

kreek wrote: post #29

They exist, but engineering pays so much more, while still filling the need to create so 'Desingineers' choose development over design.

You mean pixel-pushing design or product design? And aren't majority of Engineers really not just programmers?

I know what you mean and it is easy to pick issues, just wanted to state these differences.

Re: Desingineer – the mythical person every startup is looking for

#40

Post by fiznool »

schraeds wrote: post #30

I am proficient in: Photoshop, Illustrator, Expression Blend, Sencha, HTML/CSS/Java, WPF, ExtJS. I possess: Taste, attention to detail and aesthetics, an understanding of human factors as they relate to computer interaction. What does that make me? :)

Big-headed?
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