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Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

economist.com

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Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#411

Post by samtho »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #333
notch656a wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mens rea

You don't have to intend to commit a crime to have mens rea. You merely have to intentionally do all the steps involved in the crime. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, and neither is intentional ignorance of whether you are breaking it or not. Pawn shops got the receiving end of this deal a while ago. Now it's Amazon's turn.

Intent does matter, however - plausible deniability would not be a thing otherwise.

Only in cases of strict liability are intentions not usually considered, which mostly include minor offenses (infractions) and a few major ones like statutory rape. Possession of items that are illegal to possess in any situation is another case where strict liability applies, but possession of legal goods that “a reasonable person” would not be aware was stolen does not fall into this case. Amazon sellers sign a contract saying the goods they offer for sell are their legal possessions to sell, giving Amazon plausible deniability as if anyone breaks the law, as the seller would then also be breaking their rules as well.

I think we need to ask ourselves the harder questions of why people are stealing and figure out how to address that issue. Just like how we here tend to condemn technological solutions for social problems, tons of legal regulations can be fairly criticized for a being a legal solution to a social problem.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#412

Post by MichaelCollins »

coredog64 wrote: post #122
fragmede wrote: post #53

I've lived in the same city now (not NYC) for 10+ years, so I'm moderately connected with all sorts of people and not just a bubble of affluent tech people. So I'll be real, I know some sketchy people that probably do drugs or at least know where to find some. What I don't know, however, is any "fences". That is, someone that traffics in stolen goods. Or maybe I do, they don't exactly advertise their services. I've n…

Chains in Manhattan put stickers on the merchandise that tell you where it came from. While you could remove them, it’s a PITA and cuts into your margins. If you don’t remove it, there is a clear signal to Amazon that these are stolen goods.

> cuts into your margins

It's not as though the thieves hire workers to do this for them. It's something they can do themselves while tweaking.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#413

Post by alfiedotwtf »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #109
fragmede wrote: post #53

I've lived in the same city now (not NYC) for 10+ years, so I'm moderately connected with all sorts of people and not just a bubble of affluent tech people. So I'll be real, I know some sketchy people that probably do drugs or at least know where to find some. What I don't know, however, is any "fences". That is, someone that traffics in stolen goods. Or maybe I do, they don't exactly advertise their services. I've n…

Ooooooooohhhhhhh!! So I steal some consumer goods, put them in individual boxes, send them to Amazon warehouse and they distribute for me. I simply never put that together. But surely Amazon is literally handling stolen goods? Is there a smoking gun email?

I have bought a lot of books from Amazon, and if you look past the scrubbing with a marker, it's always some library within America - so yes even books from Amazon are just books taken from public libraries.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#414

Post by kube-system »

anonu wrote: post #322
adrr wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a whole industry based around arbitraging price differences between Amazon and brick and mortar merchants. Just search YouTube for “get rich with FBA”. How would Amazon know if it was stolen or retail arbitrage?

Who wants to buy a $10 deodorant from a NYC CVS when you can buy the same thing for much cheaper online. The thieves are only accelerating the demise of overpriced brick and mortar stores. Plus the experience of going into a CVS and having to press a button and wait for an employee to hand you a deodorant is horrible. (Not condoning theft, but at least the free market is speaking here somewhat)

> Who wants to buy a $10 deodorant from a NYC CVS when you can buy the same thing for much cheaper online.

…people who do not have any deodorant, who are in NYC, and would like to not stink now.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#415

Post by dls2016 »

capitalsigma wrote: post #404
dls2016 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the comments here are ignoring the difference between regular old shoplifting and the trend driving the increase discussed in the article, which they're referring to as "organized retail crime". I guess, but conversely I'd argue that organized retail theft has been around pretty much as long as supply chains have existed. That's the mob's bread and butter. The phrase "riding shotgun" is in common use. Perha…

Understaffing doesn't justify crime. You probably understaff your home security, leaving it empty all day while you're at work. Do you deserve to be robbed?

> Understaffing doesn't justify crime.

Noting the existence of theft throughout the ages is not an endorsement.

My point is that we should be careful who we ask to pay for enforcement. It's expensive to maintain a system of courts and jails for petty crimes. Rikers is a rather egregious example, but almost $1 billion per year where 85% of detainees are pretrial!

I think it's legitimate to ask to what exent the community should cover the enforcement cost.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#416

Post by [deleted] »

LawTalkingGuy wrote: post #332
ksenzee wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so this is a hugely political issue right now. Don't be surprised to get wildly differing answers. Republicans are pointing at public disorder and screaming about crime, and Democrats are accusing them of being fragile suburbanites who can't handle normal urban life. I'm a left-leaning independent, and I tend to agree with Democrats on a lot of their talking points, but I will say that everywhere I go I see mo…

How's the housing work? Victoria and Vancouver tried this by buying old hotels and turning them into apartments but they filled them with junkies and were surprised that they soon became worse than the outdoor camps. Any solution that doesn't segregate the sick can't work.

[deleted]

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#417

Post by MichaelCollins »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #109
fragmede wrote: post #53

I've lived in the same city now (not NYC) for 10+ years, so I'm moderately connected with all sorts of people and not just a bubble of affluent tech people. So I'll be real, I know some sketchy people that probably do drugs or at least know where to find some. What I don't know, however, is any "fences". That is, someone that traffics in stolen goods. Or maybe I do, they don't exactly advertise their services. I've n…

Ooooooooohhhhhhh!! So I steal some consumer goods, put them in individual boxes, send them to Amazon warehouse and they distribute for me. I simply never put that together. But surely Amazon is literally handling stolen goods? Is there a smoking gun email?

> But surely Amazon is literally handling stolen goods? Is there a smoking gun email?

If Amazon were a mom and pop fence, the local cops could bust them in a sting. But Amazon is a huge megacorp, so even if the cops try to catch them in a sting nothing will stick because Amazon will claim their shear scale rendered them completely oblivious to everything and therefore not criminally culpable.

Yeah, it's bullshit.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#418

Post by MichaelCollins »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #413
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ooooooooohhhhhhh!! So I steal some consumer goods, put them in individual boxes, send them to Amazon warehouse and they distribute for me. I simply never put that together. But surely Amazon is literally handling stolen goods? Is there a smoking gun email?

I have bought a lot of books from Amazon, and if you look past the scrubbing with a marker, it's always some library within America - so yes even books from Amazon are just books taken from public libraries.

That's not necessarily a smoking gun; public libraries often give away old books they don't want to keep around anymore. About a quarter of the books in my personal library are ex-library books, but none were stolen.

Of course if it's some popular in-demand book, it was almost certainly stolen. Most of the free library books I've scored are 50 year old textbooks about obscure/obsolete topics.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#419

Post by flutas »

c_hackett wrote: post #133

As someone not from the US can anyone shed some light why deodorant and other personal care goods are so expensive in the US? The prices are so ludicrous compared to the UK that on my trip I had to take a photo as friends would have thought I was exaggerating when telling them! Take for example Dove Men+Care antiperspirant. In the US what is a rather compact can 3.8oz/107g was on the shelf at $9.55 (plus sales tax).…

> Take for example Dove Men+Care antiperspirant. In the US what is a rather compact can 3.8oz/107g was on the shelf at $9.55 (plus sales tax). I've just checked a well known UK chemist (boots) and 150ml of the same brand is £1.70 and 250ml is £2.00 (both including sales tax). Not really sure why the US measure aerosols in g and the UK measures them in ml but the price difference alone is jaw dropping.

First for the price info. I live in [state capital city] but we're not a big tourist destination and that can ranges between $4.09 and $10 locally. Prices can vary drastically based on the retailer and location in even a city.

For the actual difference in product, I'm fairly sure this is just a misunderstanding (and a reasonable one at that due to our crappy weight system).

The US version is listed at 3.8OZ "NET WT." not "FL. OZ", so the 3.8oz should be the weight of the actual deodorant inside, not the volume of it. Whereas the UK version being listed at 250ml I assume it is the volume.

I don't have a good estimate on the actual volume/weight difference of the two products though.

Maybe someone could grab a can from a US store and do the math on the actual volume of the container?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#420

Post by pj_mukh »

listenallyall wrote: post #282
ryan_lane wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like the organized retail theft (gangs of people robbing a store) cracked down on, but in general I'd prefer a softer touch on general petty shop lifting. These are different things, with different motivations, and cracking down on someone stealing because they have nothing doesn't actually prevent that from happening more (you need to address the underlying issue). The organized crime, however, should be harshly…

Although I generally agree there's little positive effect from harshly punishing very petty thieves, saying "address the underlying issue" is a major cop-out basically indicating you have no interest in fixing anything. What do you think the "underlying issue" is? Drug abuse? Lack of education? Paucity of low-skill jobs? Not enough affordable housing? Discrimination? Lack of opportunities for ex-prisoners? Inflation?…

This is such a weird statement.

"The causes of the disease is so complicated, that anyone looking to do anything other than treat the symptoms must be disingenuous" ? :/

It is a long list of problems that most other advanced countries seem to have mitigated. Why must we throw our hands up like, "ugh, Its too hard, I need something simpler"?

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