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Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

economist.com

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Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#291

Post by LawTalkingGuy »

public_defender wrote: post #159

Expert in stolen goods here. I was talking to a NYC colleague the other day about how there are trends in favor of not punishing people for certain criminal activity in the city. We were talking about driving with a suspended license, but I asked about shoplifting. She said, "Oh, no. That's on the opposite trend. Not only are they prosecuting it to the maximum, but they just changed the law to make it easier to hold…

> the street-level shoplifter will be the target of most policy interventions here, which is the least effective and least humane strategy.

Getting a low-level criminal or junkie off the street, alive, is worth a lot. You can then offer them a chance to turn their sentence into rehab or something if they don't need jail.

And there's no reason we can't go for the higher ups too, there's (jail)time for everyone!

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#292

Post by Teever »

SpelingBeeChamp wrote: post #225
blululu wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. In most states (CA for example) it is a felony to sell stolen goods when the amount exceeds a pretty modest threshold. If, as alleged in the parent comment, they are committing a crime on a large scale then the blame is very well placed. *of course this does not exonerate the original thieves, but as a matter of practicality it is going to be easier to hit a single large offender than a myriad of small ones.

I am fairly sure that trafficking in stolen goods is only a crime if the person knew, or if a reasonable person should have known, that the goods were stolen.

Merely possessing stolen goods is a crime where I am from and is more than likely the same where you are.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#293

Post by c_hackett »

alar44 wrote: post #191
c_hackett wrote: post #133

As someone not from the US can anyone shed some light why deodorant and other personal care goods are so expensive in the US? The prices are so ludicrous compared to the UK that on my trip I had to take a photo as friends would have thought I was exaggerating when telling them! Take for example Dove Men+Care antiperspirant. In the US what is a rather compact can 3.8oz/107g was on the shelf at $9.55 (plus sales tax).…

Where is "the US"? You realize that's an entire fucking continent with vastly different economic situations? Just looked it up on instacart, it's $4.29 here.

This comment is not only rude but also inaccurate regarding basic geography.

On the topic of price the item in question shows as been between $8.50 - $11.50 depending on store in the first zip that instacart loaded (94105). Checking another zip (07081) it's between $7.50 - $11.50. As a result $9.95 does not seem outside normal parameters for this item.

https://www.instacart.com/store/walgreens/products/1585122

The US item is also materially smaller than the UK version. Even if they was the same volume, at $4.29 this is still a considerable increase in cost compared to the UK price.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#294

Post by bhk »

public_defender wrote: post #159

Expert in stolen goods here. I was talking to a NYC colleague the other day about how there are trends in favor of not punishing people for certain criminal activity in the city. We were talking about driving with a suspended license, but I asked about shoplifting. She said, "Oh, no. That's on the opposite trend. Not only are they prosecuting it to the maximum, but they just changed the law to make it easier to hold…

This is clearly not true.

> Manhattan D.A. Acts on Vow to Seek Incarceration Only for Worst Crimes

> The district attorney, Alvin Bragg, told prosecutors in his office in a memo that they should ask judges for jail or prison time only for the most serious offenses — including murder, sexual assault and economic crimes involving vast sums of money — unless the law requires them to do otherwise.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/nyregion/alvin-bragg-manh...

And this isn't entirely new with Bragg...

https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/nyc-da-downgrades-macys-loving...

https://nypost.com/2021/10/02/nyc-man-leads-record-shatterin...

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#295

Post by josephcsible »

jmyeet wrote: post #116

So if we attribute the rise in petty property theft to organized crime gangs that still doesn't get to the issue of why . we know why and we've known for thousands of years [1]: "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime" -- Aristotle No one grows up wanting to steal deoderant from Walgreens. A lot of crime can simply be explained by material conditions. Over the last 40 years in particular, we've seen real incom…

> for the first time in decades, people started to see a real increase in wages

Who are you talking about? Other than the techbros who switched jobs for a $100k raise, which is a tiny fraction of the population, basically everyone else's real wages have plummeted the last two years.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#296

Post by dylan604 »

fragmede wrote: post #53

I've lived in the same city now (not NYC) for 10+ years, so I'm moderately connected with all sorts of people and not just a bubble of affluent tech people. So I'll be real, I know some sketchy people that probably do drugs or at least know where to find some. What I don't know, however, is any "fences". That is, someone that traffics in stolen goods. Or maybe I do, they don't exactly advertise their services. I've n…

>Because your supply costs are cheap, you can undercut your competitors (but not by too much)

or, take the other approach, and sell it slightly higher. this will easily remove the suspicion that you are selling stolen goods. in fact, you might get more sales from people deliberately looking to not purchase from the lowest price seller. it's genius, and i see no fault in this plan whatsoever.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#297

Post by PragmaticPulp »

axutio wrote: post #161

Most of the comments here are ignoring the difference between regular old shoplifting and the trend driving the increase discussed in the article, which they're referring to as "organized retail crime". I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of s…

> I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of stolen baby formula on eBay".

I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail stores are evil corporations and therefore deserve no sympathy.

Knowing some people who work in retail, the impact of rampant theft (organized or random) is really quite unsettling on the people who have to be around it. Retail store policies are very much about not interfering with the thieves, but it’s quite upsetting when you realize you’re in an environment where the law doesn’t really mean anything and consequences basically don’t exist for breaking the law. The few people I know in retail (including retail management) are looking to get out ASAP because it just feels so vaguely unsafe and, worse yet, large swaths of the public seem to thing the thieves are the good guys and the retail employees are the bad ones because they’re associated with a corporation.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#298

Post by LawTalkingGuy »

ransom1538 wrote: post #270
partiallypro wrote: post #179

This is such a big nationwide problem that Target actually mentioned it during their earnings report (this is stated in the article.) Some states/cities have made it near impossible to prosecute these people, so the risk/reward is very favorable to stealing and reselling. Some stores have even closed down in certain areas because of it. When we talk about "food deserts" in some cities, it could one day be we have mas…

I have no idea how a prosecutor can take down these organized rings. The entire method prosecutors use for say exotic drugs, guns, etc: "Ok we have you for 5 years here, who do you work for, make these phone calls, we can get your sentence down to parole". This allows prosecutors to work their way up. But if a prosecutor is sitting in front of a low level shop lifter - who gets out that day - i don't see any prosecut…

Conspiracy charges? Airtags in their shoes?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#299

Post by prvit »

fragmede wrote: post #53

I've lived in the same city now (not NYC) for 10+ years, so I'm moderately connected with all sorts of people and not just a bubble of affluent tech people. So I'll be real, I know some sketchy people that probably do drugs or at least know where to find some. What I don't know, however, is any "fences". That is, someone that traffics in stolen goods. Or maybe I do, they don't exactly advertise their services. I've n…

Amazon should not try to do anything about this, because there is nothing Amazon can do about this.

Amazon should not be required to do anything about this, that’s why we pay cops.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#300

Post by josephcsible »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #279
josephcsible wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some societies do better than others at stopping crime too. Can we set our bar to match Singapore in that respect?

I actually wrote another comment in this thread about Singapore [1]. The subway there was particularly interesting to me. While the New York media has used subway deaths to drum up support for police, Singapore has entirely solved the root problem in a non-carceral way by investing in infrastructure. Plenty of other countries have done the same, actually. The knee-jerk response of adding more cops actually makes soci…

Sure, infrastructure can stop people from being pushed onto the tracks. How did they solve shoplifting though?
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