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UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

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Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#41

Post by jwmcq »

cloutchaser wrote: post #17
BoGoToTo wrote: post #5

Don't worry, the Tories will just cut taxes on the rich again and that will fix everything /s

This is such a simplified viewpoint. The UK has never been able to collect more than 39%-40% of GDP in taxes. And that's what the level is at now. Already everyone is paying as much tax as in history. (and the "rich" pay a lot of that, remember you pay £0 tax under £15,000 income per year). You can try and tax more, but it's highly unlikely to work based on past experience. And in these cases, like with corporation t…

>What's the solution here to get more in taxes?

Easy - increase corporation tax. The main rate has been literally halved over the last 30 years.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#42

Post by jimnotgym »

cloutchaser wrote: post #24
Veliladon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there was some form of large market close by that the UK could be a member of so that the UK could trade with them in a frictionless manner and expand the economies of both areas through trade. That would increase the GDP and hence the amount of money the government could have available to it through taxation. But I don't think there is anything like that around. I mean, if there was, why the hell wouldn't th…

Very nice, but the EU is probably going to decline in GDP more than the UK, and the euro could potentially collapse due to the Italy situation in the next few years. Thinking the UKs issues are because of brexit are about as simplistic as saying “tax the rich will solve all the worlds issues”

>the EU is probably going to decline in GDP more than the UK

Even if that does happen, it doesn't necessarily follow that the UK couldn't also have a higher GDP by trading with the EU

>Thinking the UKs issues are because of brexit

... could make you the governor of the Bank of England

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/16/brexit-and-...

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#43

Post by tannhaeuser »

kypro wrote: post #30

I'll get downvoted for this, but this isn't true if you're one of the two protected classes in the UK: pensioners or welfare recipients. Both will see their income rise with inflation. If you're working then, sure, you're getting screwed as always because after just spending billions locking down the economy to saving boomers from Covid, this year we decided to spend billions bailing out boomers pensions, paying for…

German government just started UBI basically; in other words, they're buying their votes. Not getting your boomer hate, though.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#44

Post by unnouinceput »

Quote: "... and higher unemployment are battering household finances..."

But but wasn't Brexit suppose to fix unemployment? Wasn't the entire idea that once the foreigners are no longer welcoming the rising market will start employ the local population and drive down unemployment? And yet, almost 3 years later (Jan 1st is around the corner) the unemployment is still rising. Who would've thought that isolating yourself is not actually a benefit for a capitalist market.

I mean history is a forgettable science after all, none thought that past lessons of isolation of Japan or China from centuries ago would still be applicable to today's situation /s

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#45

Post by zx85wes »

rsj_hn wrote: post #26

This is 100% caused by the anti-Russian sanctions policy, yet not a single comment on this thread so far has even mentioned the sanctions and tried to engage in a reasoned debate about whether the economic costs paid by Europe (and especially the energy insecure nations within the EU) were worth whatever moral good boy points the sanctions buy us. Some have suggested the sanctions help Ukraine, but haven't articulate…

I expect more people will vote far right or far left as a consequence. I'm a moderate, but the centre parties that created this mess won't get my vote again.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#46

Post by jimnotgym »

jwmcq wrote: post #41
cloutchaser wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a simplified viewpoint. The UK has never been able to collect more than 39%-40% of GDP in taxes. And that's what the level is at now. Already everyone is paying as much tax as in history. (and the "rich" pay a lot of that, remember you pay £0 tax under £15,000 income per year). You can try and tax more, but it's highly unlikely to work based on past experience. And in these cases, like with corporation t…

>What's the solution here to get more in taxes? Easy - increase corporation tax. The main rate has been literally halved over the last 30 years.

Tax Capital Gains at the same rate as income?

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#47

Post by JonChesterfield »

jwmcq wrote: post #41
cloutchaser wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a simplified viewpoint. The UK has never been able to collect more than 39%-40% of GDP in taxes. And that's what the level is at now. Already everyone is paying as much tax as in history. (and the "rich" pay a lot of that, remember you pay £0 tax under £15,000 income per year). You can try and tax more, but it's highly unlikely to work based on past experience. And in these cases, like with corporation t…

>What's the solution here to get more in taxes? Easy - increase corporation tax. The main rate has been literally halved over the last 30 years.

The thing with that is corporations can defer profits until the rate falls again, while in the mean time you encourage people to open new premises elsewhere. So the take is not remotely linear in the percentage.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#48

Post by JonChesterfield »

jimnotgym wrote: post #31
cloutchaser wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a simplified viewpoint. The UK has never been able to collect more than 39%-40% of GDP in taxes. And that's what the level is at now. Already everyone is paying as much tax as in history. (and the "rich" pay a lot of that, remember you pay £0 tax under £15,000 income per year). You can try and tax more, but it's highly unlikely to work based on past experience. And in these cases, like with corporation t…

One solution is to tax wealth rather than income. That should be popular...

Also known as "theft"

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#49

Post by chinabot »

akmarinov wrote: post #34
miohtama wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the current term is over, it’s unlikely Tories are going to wield political power for a while.

Who’s up next - Labour?

What a shit choice you have, even the monster-raving-loony-party couldnt have created the circus that exists at the moment.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#50

Post by sgt101 »

Veliladon wrote: post #21
cloutchaser wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a simplified viewpoint. The UK has never been able to collect more than 39%-40% of GDP in taxes. And that's what the level is at now. Already everyone is paying as much tax as in history. (and the "rich" pay a lot of that, remember you pay £0 tax under £15,000 income per year). You can try and tax more, but it's highly unlikely to work based on past experience. And in these cases, like with corporation t…

If only there was some form of large market close by that the UK could be a member of so that the UK could trade with them in a frictionless manner and expand the economies of both areas through trade. That would increase the GDP and hence the amount of money the government could have available to it through taxation. But I don't think there is anything like that around. I mean, if there was, why the hell wouldn't th…

If only. Of course, you mean the EU.

But the UK has run a trade deficit of $60bn with the EU for the last 10 years or so. Leaving hasn't helped that, but staying wouldn't have either.

Something has to change in the relationship - something deep and real. The fundamental is the competitive advantage that the Euro confers on the German economy. Brexit is a way it can change overtime, there won't be an advantage for the UK, just an emergent state that is sustainable. The UK will be poorer in the present - but may avoid a Greece style implosion.

Truss showed that may is important here.

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