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‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

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Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#131

Post by opportune »

hilom wrote: post #3

That was a long read, but very much worth reading. This part really stuck out to me: > A few years ago, a friend of mine, in a well-meaning attempt to understand the impoverished diets of poor people, ate a Food Stamp diet for a week. On the last day of the diet, he talked about what he had learned and spoke philosophically about his renewed appreciation of healthy food as he prepared to end his restricted diet with…

My girlfriend has EBT and she eats just fine. Vegetables are much cheaper than processed food. Maybe at one point in time it was true that processed food was cheaper and a necessity to get by on food stamps but these days it’s much cheaper to buy and eat unprocessed food like rice, bread, peanut butter, and lentils.

Those are just things I eat because I’m not a great cook. My gf cooks things like pies and casseroles.

Another thing that weirds me out is how many different kinds of junk and processed foods are EBT eligible.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#132

Post by notacoward »

Having grown up poor myself and now moving in more affluent circles, I see these differences almost every day. Food is a big one. Most people remain forever attached to the kinds of foods they grew up with. A once-poor person might no longer like boxed macaroni and cheese or Taco Bell burritos, preferring more upscale versions of both, but a never-poor person will curl their lip in disgust at the very idea. How do you decorate (or not)? What kinds of vacations do you take (or not)? Are there any things that you hoard, even though there's no longer a point? How are your teeth? These little markers are everywhere, if you know what to look at. Even the fact that people don't talk about their childhood, especially what kind of schools they went to or what sports/activities (if any) they were involved in, can be a big tip-off. I can usually tell within ten minutes or so whether someone I'm talking to is once-poor or never-poor, even if they're both in the same economic stratum now. And I definitely feel more affinity for the first group.

BTW, a lot of these markers - especially food and hoarding - are pretty well known for people who survived the Great Depression, too. Those habits die hard.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#133

Post by Tade0 »

This brought back some painful memories.

The shame and fear is real, but the "passing" bit is no less important.

Even if you get out of this, you can't relate to e.g. your current co-workers, because you didn't have the same upbringing.

It's much like being an immigrant - I've been one too and it was a similar feeling.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#134

Post by notRobot »

josephcsible wrote: post #126
notRobot wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes. "If only these people would abstain from the joys of eating fucking McDonald's , they'd no longer be poor."

The point is that even the cheapest restaurants are more expensive than preparing food yourself.

Do you actually believe poor people don't know that?

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#135

Post by p0pcult »

Aunche wrote: post #127
CobaltFire wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See “The Sam Vimes “Boots” Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness”: The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboar…

It's easier to make economic theories that fit science fiction rather than real life. The Vimes boots problem has already been solved by financing. Services like Affirm would allow Sam Vimes to pay the $50 boots in 4 biweekly installments of $12.50. If the theory were correct, then buy-now-pay-later programs would help alleviate poverty, but what we see instead is that it worsens it by enabling consumerist purchases.

Who qualifies for zero interest financing?

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#136

Post by josephcsible »

orev wrote: post #72
troupe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a similar situation with buying a car for $500 that will require lots of repairs vs. a more expensive car that will give you a lower cost per mile. While this does add some drag, in most of the situations I've actually seen, it isn't the main barrier to getting out of poverty. The main barrier seems to be a culture or mindset that prioritizes short term benefit/feelings over long term benefits even when there a…

> a culture or mindset that prioritizes short term benefit/feelings over long term benefits even when there are other options. For example, things like getting a dog, signing up for cable TV, getting an unnecessarily expensive new phone, spending money on going out to eat, etc. While there are definitely elements of spending badly, this idea that they spend money on the “wrong” things gets dangerously close to dehuma…

> Having cable TV gives you access to unlimited entertainment.

So does having Internet access, and I don't think very many people pay for cable TV but not Internet.

> A smartphone gives you access to all known human knowledge, and is essentially required now to access benefits, banking, etc.

GP said "an unnecessarily expensive new phone", not "a smartphone". A $160 Samsung Galaxy A03s is perfectly capable of doing all of the things you mentioned. If you're having trouble making ends meet, there is zero excuse to ever buy the new $1000 iPhone.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#137

Post by anonymouskimmer »

Mezzie wrote: post #79
troupe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a similar situation with buying a car for $500 that will require lots of repairs vs. a more expensive car that will give you a lower cost per mile. While this does add some drag, in most of the situations I've actually seen, it isn't the main barrier to getting out of poverty. The main barrier seems to be a culture or mindset that prioritizes short term benefit/feelings over long term benefits even when there a…

> The main barrier seems to be a culture or mindset that prioritizes short term benefit/feelings over long term benefits even when there are other options. Interesting because the main barriers I see are how the system creates perverse incentives for poor people re: getting to be not poor. For example, people on SSI aren't allowed to save. If my sister makes more than ~1k/mo or I save too much (as she's my dependent)…

Would buying gold or silver coins or collectibles count as savings? If not there are other items that can be purchased new or used that have a high resale value and thus could be used as a store of savings without actually being cash, though the only affordable one on this list, for a poor person, would be the Ann Taylor clothes: https://blog.cheapism.com/best-resale-value-products-14004/#...

Obviously not a solution, and these options are worse in many respects than a basic savings account, but if a savings account isn't an option they may be a good idea. Assuming, of course, that total assets aren't accounted for by the assistance programs.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#138

Post by josephcsible »

majormajor wrote: post #102
troupe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a similar situation with buying a car for $500 that will require lots of repairs vs. a more expensive car that will give you a lower cost per mile. While this does add some drag, in most of the situations I've actually seen, it isn't the main barrier to getting out of poverty. The main barrier seems to be a culture or mindset that prioritizes short term benefit/feelings over long term benefits even when there a…

> For example, things like getting a dog, signing up for cable TV, getting an unnecessarily expensive new phone, spending money on going out to eat, etc. How much money do you think it takes to get out of poverty? Is not buying an iPhone and having an extra $1k, even - let's say they went big on the phone - "out of poverty"? That may not even be a month's rent, depending on location... to have security, you need many…

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Sure, no individual action will ever make you rich, but that doesn't mean you should never do anything.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#139

Post by mmmpop »

Eleison23 wrote: post #11
photochemsyn wrote: post #2

The architects of the economic system in the United States don't want to eliminate poverty - it's kept around as a threat, something to point to - see, grunts, that's where you'll end up if you're not an obedient drone. This is also a main reason why there's no reliable public health care system, instead it's tied to employment. The general concept is "discipline of the labor force."

Poverty is hard to come by in these United States. If you're starving, or homeless, or unemployed, you've worked yourself into a corner fairly diligently. There are myriad social safety nets out there for people if they'd only take advantage of them. Yet there are people roaming the streets and picking out of trash cans. Why? Because they've lost their families, they've lost their minds, they struggle with addictions…

Hey I used to agree with you but then I realized that I'm smart, industrious, and not ugly which puts me just miles ahead of the average person, which is still the middle-of-the-pack. Actual dumb people still need to be fed, housed, and given meaningful existences right? So what to do>

Engineers and other techy people that peruse HN probably don't spend a lot of time around less-than-average folks on a routine basis, I figure.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#140

Post by j7ake »

pflenker wrote: post #12

One of the things that suck most about being poor is that you need to have money in order to save money. You need to have enough money to buy a certain level of quality, and if you don't have it, you're forced to buy cheap stuff that breaks more easily (thus spending more money in total). I found this aspect hard to understand for others, the attitude often seems to be: "you don't have to be poor, you simply need to…

I remember reading an old Cracked article describing how expensive it was to be poor. Eg overdraft fees, bad quality goods, no access to proper healthcare…
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