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‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

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Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#91

Post by lelanthran »

phkahler wrote: post #30
Eleison23 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty is hard to come by in these United States. If you're starving, or homeless, or unemployed, you've worked yourself into a corner fairly diligently. There are myriad social safety nets out there for people if they'd only take advantage of them. Yet there are people roaming the streets and picking out of trash cans. Why? Because they've lost their families, they've lost their minds, they struggle with addictions…

>> Poverty is hard to come by in these United States. If you're starving, or homeless, or unemployed, you've worked yourself into a corner fairly diligently. You have a lot to learn. Start by reading the article, and understand that the effects of growing up that way are hard to overcome - psychologically. The author has a Ph.D and still suffers from it. You may also want to look around at low cost of subsidized hous…

> You have a lot to learn. Start by reading the article, and understand that the effects of growing up that way are hard to overcome - psychologically. The author has a Ph.D and still suffers from it.

The author grew up poor and has a Phd? Sounds like all the arguments here about how it is impossible to escape poverty are at odds with that fact.

-- someone who grew up poor

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#92

Post by steele »

ryan93 wrote: post #32
hilom wrote: post #3

That was a long read, but very much worth reading. This part really stuck out to me: > A few years ago, a friend of mine, in a well-meaning attempt to understand the impoverished diets of poor people, ate a Food Stamp diet for a week. On the last day of the diet, he talked about what he had learned and spoke philosophically about his renewed appreciation of healthy food as he prepared to end his restricted diet with…

This doesnt really square with the insane fraction of food stamps spent on soda. Im lowish income and can easily afford peppers, onions and garlic. bulk stuff like sweet potato is cheap. My rice and chicken stir fry would take like 20-25 min of work at a fast food job to afford.

You got dependents? Does cooking require any utilities? Let's say you can only afford one. You going to sleep by the oven or do homework by candlelight? How many illnesses are you away from homelessness?

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#93

Post by Mezzie »

synu wrote: post #5

I wish there were more founders and investors who came from a background of intense poverty. I know why there aren’t many, and I know why the ones who are don’t speak about it, but because nobody talks about it everyone has to figure out how to “pass” and how not to fall into certain traps on our own, and there isn’t any systemic support out there. Or if there is/there are people talking about it, I’m just not aware.

They can't talk about it.

I'm a first generation college grad (both undergrad and grad school) raised by blue collar peeps (sort of - it's complicated). In professional environments, talking about your life or the impacts of poverty will get you pushed out. You're not a 'culture fit', you make people uncomfortable, the upper-middle class/PMC assume that if you have poverty problems you can't work as well, etc.

It is 100% passing. I'm very good at it, because my mother was a defector from that life and passed on the social mores for us to use, but I hate it, and the energy it takes up is immense. I didn't even realize until I worked in my first 'non-professional' job in retail. I don't have to hide everything about my life and childhood, I don't have to watch my language so I don't give away I grew up poorish, etc.

And I have it very, very good in my groups. (Poor-raised + disabled).

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#94

Post by TeaDrunk »

bluedino wrote: post #66
notRobot wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes. "If only these people would abstain from the joys of eating fucking McDonald's , they'd no longer be poor."

I'd first like to respond that McDonalds is terrible and don't see how it brings you joy. I'm also not saying poor people do t get any joy. They just don't get to have every joy they want. Even if you're not poor you don't get to do that. At what point do you see the irresponsibility? Applebees? Ruth's Chris? The French Laundry?

> At what point do you see the irresponsibility? Applebees? Ruth's Chris? The French Laundry?

Definitely not the $2 burger special at Mcdonald's, that's for sure.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#95

Post by all2well »

troupe wrote: post #42
pflenker wrote: post #12

One of the things that suck most about being poor is that you need to have money in order to save money. You need to have enough money to buy a certain level of quality, and if you don't have it, you're forced to buy cheap stuff that breaks more easily (thus spending more money in total). I found this aspect hard to understand for others, the attitude often seems to be: "you don't have to be poor, you simply need to…

It is a similar situation with buying a car for $500 that will require lots of repairs vs. a more expensive car that will give you a lower cost per mile. While this does add some drag, in most of the situations I've actually seen, it isn't the main barrier to getting out of poverty. The main barrier seems to be a culture or mindset that prioritizes short term benefit/feelings over long term benefits even when there a…

All the poorer people I know are very skilled at saving small amounts of money on things, e.g. pirating shows, using a cheap old phone, knowing where to find the cheapest groceries, and so on. I know that I've gotten a lot lazier about stuff like pirating a show vs just paying three dollars or whatever to watch it as my income has gone up.

The things that prevent poor people from becoming not poor, in my experience, are things like chronic health conditions and abusive upbringings. The things that have gotten people I know out of poverty have usually been education. I don't know a single person who got out of poverty by cancelling netflix. Where are you getting this idea from?

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#96

Post by Mezzie »

monero-xmr wrote: post #90
Mezzie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What we really need is to limit food stamps (or SNAP, EBT, whatever name) to healthier options. That'd be super fun for me, as a person with MS. I literally don't have the energy to cook a lot of the time, and am often only awake for 1-2 hours when I'm not at work, during which time I already have to shower, do chores, pay bills, etc. Oh, and I'm hypotensive and on medication that often means I don't feel hungry. J…

The grocery store has food for all manner of diets and it takes SNAP. I don’t think your story negates the crux of the matter. It’s great junk food is healthy for you.

Yes, and currently I use my SNAP on junk food.

If it were restricted, I'd have major issues eating because what is and isn't healthy would be determined by upper-middle class people who work in think tanks and based off of some weird ideal diet, completely ignoring the varying health needs and ability levels of the people actually using SNAP.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#97

Post by steele »

monero-xmr wrote: post #44
bluedino wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The excuse for this is they either don't know how to cook, or don't have the staples to cook, or they don't have the time to cook.

It’s hard for me to feel bad when everything possible is in front of you and you still make a poor life decision. You can be poor and still be willfully unhealthy, same as the rich.

How many cancer treatments poor life decisions are you away from homelessness?

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#98

Post by bryanrasmussen »

dionidium wrote: post #55
hilom wrote: post #3

That was a long read, but very much worth reading. This part really stuck out to me: > A few years ago, a friend of mine, in a well-meaning attempt to understand the impoverished diets of poor people, ate a Food Stamp diet for a week. On the last day of the diet, he talked about what he had learned and spoke philosophically about his renewed appreciation of healthy food as he prepared to end his restricted diet with…

What sticks out to me is that it sticks out to you (and the author and so many others besides). I have actually been on food stamps . I never ate so well. Before I had food stamps I was just a typical working poor person. I had never spent as much on groceries as I was able to on food stamps. Food stamps are accepted at regular grocery stores -- the same ones you shop at. You can get anything you want, more or less.…

>I have actually been on food stamps.

yeah, were you a family on food stamps? Two adults, one kid? Or were you a single person on food stamps? I was a single person and like you I did pretty well, I sort of have the feeling that the dynamic would be different for a family though, it seems from what I know of family life is more problems show up and then you don't manage to take care of it the way you can as a single young person.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#99

Post by TeaDrunk »

PopAlongKid wrote: post #61
m348e912 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that confuses me is that people talk about lack of healthcare for the poor like Medicaid is not a thing. I have a friend getting a hip replacement in three weeks, after getting an appt with a specialist in one week, and it's getting covered under Medicaid. Will she have co-pays and out of pocket costs? I don't know. But I can't imagine it will be worse than with the shitty insurance I have.

And also Affordable Care Act (U.S.) which is not tied to employment. It's been around for over 10 years.

Multiple states have declined to expand medicaid that the affordable care act provides.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#100

Post by Mezzie »

roflyear wrote: post #20
pflenker wrote: post #12

One of the things that suck most about being poor is that you need to have money in order to save money. You need to have enough money to buy a certain level of quality, and if you don't have it, you're forced to buy cheap stuff that breaks more easily (thus spending more money in total). I found this aspect hard to understand for others, the attitude often seems to be: "you don't have to be poor, you simply need to…

Isn't just that either. When you're poor you don't have the proper clothes. You ruin good clothes doing hard work.

And good luck getting a better job without nice clothes, a decent haircut, and some makeup (if you're female). But if you buy those things, you're being 'wasteful'.
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