‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#31

Post by 1attice » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

Eleison23 wrote: post #11

photochemsyn wrote: post #2

The architects of the economic system in the United States don't want to eliminate poverty - it's kept around as a threat, something to point to - see, grunts, that's where you'll end up if you're not an obedient drone. This is also a main reason why there's no reliable public health care system, instead it's tied to employment. The general concept is "discipline of the labor force."

Poverty is hard to come by in these United States. If you're starving, or homeless, or unemployed, you've worked yourself into a corner fairly diligently. There are myriad social safety nets out there for people if they'd only take advantage of them. Yet there are people roaming the streets and picking out of trash cans. Why? Because they've lost their families, they've lost their minds, they struggle with addictions…

What's important in understanding falsehoods like the above post is the work they do.

It's patently clear to any of us who have experienced poverty that Eleison23 hasn't actually looked into any of this. Ignore that part for now, and instead ask:

Why does he need to believe & say these things? What fear does this false view assuage? What feelings, what thoughts, are throttled?

It's really hard being alive during a collapse.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#32

Post by ryan93 » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:25 PM UTC

hilom wrote: post #3

That was a long read, but very much worth reading. This part really stuck out to me: > A few years ago, a friend of mine, in a well-meaning attempt to understand the impoverished diets of poor people, ate a Food Stamp diet for a week. On the last day of the diet, he talked about what he had learned and spoke philosophically about his renewed appreciation of healthy food as he prepared to end his restricted diet with…

This doesnt really square with the insane fraction of food stamps spent on soda. Im lowish income and can easily afford peppers, onions and garlic. bulk stuff like sweet potato is cheap. My rice and chicken stir fry would take like 20-25 min of work at a fast food job to afford.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#33

Post by ReactiveJelly » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

bparsons wrote: post #27

pflenker wrote: post #12

One of the things that suck most about being poor is that you need to have money in order to save money. You need to have enough money to buy a certain level of quality, and if you don't have it, you're forced to buy cheap stuff that breaks more easily (thus spending more money in total). I found this aspect hard to understand for others, the attitude often seems to be: "you don't have to be poor, you simply need to…

Being poor is really expensive. This is something rich and middle upper class people never can really grasp. The cost of credit, unstable housing situations, having a car that breaks down all the time etc. all conspires to keep you poor. As the OP points out, when you are below the threshold needed for "basics", the interest on your debt is always higher than any return on any hypothetical investment you might make w…

I think this is part of why buying a house is cheaper than renting - The credit check and down payment just filters out poor people.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#34

Post by tpmoney » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

Overall a good read, but I would propose that if the author truly doesn't "know any poor person who is a Republican." then she might need to spend some time traveling outside of the north east.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#35

Post by m348e912 » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #2

The architects of the economic system in the United States don't want to eliminate poverty - it's kept around as a threat, something to point to - see, grunts, that's where you'll end up if you're not an obedient drone. This is also a main reason why there's no reliable public health care system, instead it's tied to employment. The general concept is "discipline of the labor force."

One thing that confuses me is that people talk about lack of healthcare for the poor like Medicaid is not a thing. I have a friend getting a hip replacement in three weeks, after getting an appt with a specialist in one week, and it's getting covered under Medicaid. Will she have co-pays and out of pocket costs? I don't know. But I can't imagine it will be worse than with the shitty insurance I have.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#36

Post by monero-xmr » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

hilom wrote: post #3

That was a long read, but very much worth reading. This part really stuck out to me: > A few years ago, a friend of mine, in a well-meaning attempt to understand the impoverished diets of poor people, ate a Food Stamp diet for a week. On the last day of the diet, he talked about what he had learned and spoke philosophically about his renewed appreciation of healthy food as he prepared to end his restricted diet with…

Is that a historical thing? In the US you get a SNAP card and can buy fresh produce at the store. I shop at a low-income focused grocery store (because it’s the same stuff but cheaper) and most people are using SNAP benefits and carts are always a mix of healthy stuff to unhealthy frozen junk.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#37

Post by rolisz » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #2

The architects of the economic system in the United States don't want to eliminate poverty - it's kept around as a threat, something to point to - see, grunts, that's where you'll end up if you're not an obedient drone. This is also a main reason why there's no reliable public health care system, instead it's tied to employment. The general concept is "discipline of the labor force."

What about all the other countries in the world, where poor still exist, even if there is a public health care system?

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#38

Post by fbdab103 » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:31 PM UTC

monero-xmr wrote: post #36

hilom wrote: post #3

That was a long read, but very much worth reading. This part really stuck out to me: > A few years ago, a friend of mine, in a well-meaning attempt to understand the impoverished diets of poor people, ate a Food Stamp diet for a week. On the last day of the diet, he talked about what he had learned and spoke philosophically about his renewed appreciation of healthy food as he prepared to end his restricted diet with…

Is that a historical thing? In the US you get a SNAP card and can buy fresh produce at the store. I shop at a low-income focused grocery store (because it’s the same stuff but cheaper) and most people are using SNAP benefits and carts are always a mix of healthy stuff to unhealthy frozen junk.

When you are poor, you have to be frugal in all things. Even "free money" needs to be spent judiciously. Junk foods will extend your dollar further and are typically faster to prepare than alternatives.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#39

Post by llaolleh » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:31 PM UTC

People who have not grown up poor can't really understand it. It's not only about the money. It's about the constant stress and fear whether or not you're going to make it.

Just work hard in school to get out is actually pretty hard. Learning is like swimming through molasses because of the constant stress. It gives you a lifetime of trauma and damage.

Re: ‘Some things never leave you’: Poverty’s indelible marks

#40

Post by sdiacom » Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 4:32 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #29

sdiacom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people who have so-called "good" health coverage in the US are paying one to three orders of magnitude more for it, compared to the price of private health insurance in countries with a public health system. The best thing that could happen to people who currently have private health insurance and wish to keep it is that a public health system appears, forcing the private health insurance oligopo…

> vast majority of people who have so-called "good" health coverage in the US are paying one to three orders of magnitude more for it, compared to the price of private health insurance in countries with a public health system. I pay (employer plus employee amounts) just under $20K/year for a family of four. I doubt anyone in the “vast majority” is paying over $50K/yr. Three orders of magnitude less than that is $50/y…

Six hundred euros a year gets you a no-copay plan for one person, all emergencies included. This is the top of the line, the most expensive individual plan available at this insurer.

A regular no-frills, some-copay insurance plan would probably cost around one to two hundred euros a year. So, yeah, two-ish orders of magnitude.