Live data from Hacker News

Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

dsfantiquejewelry.com

181–190 of 205 posts

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#181

How much timber can be made this way (including similar methods like coppicing)? Is it enough to contribute a noticeable amount to the modern timber industry? Or is it more of a "huh that's cool" conversation topic?

> Is it enough to contribute a noticeable amount to the modern timber industry?

This is the same question with renewable energies.

The answer is that maybe, just maybe, the "modern X industry" is unsustainable and we should strive to be more frugal/efficient

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#182
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was not much in the way of civilization there 150 years ago. There were indigenous, sure.

How is a self sufficient society with its own language not a civilization? Maybe you meant to say "We didn't leave much of that civilization"

I mean they didn't have much in the way of writing, architecture, science, or organization. They were thousands of years behind the more advanced civilizations. They had a primitive civilization.

There wasn't much left of their civilization 120 years ago (thanks to Europeans) and they didn't leave much behind that endured.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably mean 'stronger' in the sense of a beam, and stronger in the sense of stronger than the cedar that is not grown like that. This is probably due to the straight grain and lack of knots. That is not the property people need everywhere timber is used. Perhaps the finger board of a violin needs to be hard. The wooden bed of a scaffolding (and they are still wood in the uk) lorry needs to be tough and durable…

Fair point (although I'm fairly confident that a straight grain and a lack of knots is very desirable for wooden instruments, so if this is true for coppicing in general (so regardless using mutant cedars) that seems like an avenue worth exploring)

The coppice trees actually tend to have a limited size too

To get planks good enough to make a guitar out of the tree needs to at least twice the diameter of the plank, a plank sawn right through the middle of a tree will warp horribly and probably split down the centre. To get wide planks you need an old tree.

See 'quarter sawing' on your favourite online resource.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#184
post #107
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A German friend phrased it this way for Americans: We have beers older than your country. The depth of history and culture in Europe never ceased to amaze me while I was travelling there, especially in Greece and Italy. I grew up on the prairies in Canada, there was pretty much nothing there 120 years ago.

At the same time, USA has the oldest constitution, and east coast cities for all intents and purposes are 250 years old. If Europe's imperial capitals are essentially 19th century inventions, so are America's (Paris, NYC, Barcelona, Philadelphia, ... all ballooned to their dominant feel during the same decades). The biggest difference is that the brand that the USA is not old or has little heritage, has been along fo…

Only Americans think 250 years is old. My home town is closer to 600 years old, and the nearby castle started construction about 750 years ago.

The local history can be traced straight to the stone age.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#185
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> allmende Can't find this word in any English dictionary I checked, what does it mean?

It’s German meaning “commons" - communal lands.

Alemania(SP)/Allemagne(FR) for Germany -- must be related??

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trees don't move; it's perfectly possible to guard them from poachers.

" it's perfectly possible to guard them from poachers" This is completely overlooking the sheer size of the earth and the sheer numbers of people/tech devices it would take to guard them from poachers. We can guard some trees (and some animals) from poaching, but it really is beyond us to guard them all, even if they don't move.

if you want something you are going to have to deal with those that get in the way. Ethics aside, you can only fail by not wanting it badly enough.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#187
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly there is, from the industrial revolution forward. France tried to completely recreate itself several times during this period. By way of example, we no longer call it the Frankish lands nor the monarchy. Aggregate governance structures have changed tens of times, whereas the US really hasn't changed dramatically in the post Native American and post Revolution periods.

The French national identity goes back to Charlemagne, not merely de Gaulle.

And the American national identity goes back primarily to the Anglo-Saxons.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#188

Related https://us.eia.org/blog/japan-a-major-market-for-high-risk-t... . It seems like this ancient practice can not fulfil Japan's timber demand.

Yes. The linked post says Japan is the 4th largest importer of wood. My geography professor in 1981 told us about it being cheaper to send raw wood logged in the Pacific Northwest to Japan for finishing than it was to ship it across the country. And, in Collapse I think, Jared Diamond talks about Japan "exporting" its deforestation to less-developed countries. Other countries do this too (and for other natural resources too), of course, but any of the "sustainability" of these old practices is greatly outweighed by the damage done by mass logging in the less-developed countries.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#189
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, USA has the oldest constitution, and east coast cities for all intents and purposes are 250 years old. If Europe's imperial capitals are essentially 19th century inventions, so are America's (Paris, NYC, Barcelona, Philadelphia, ... all ballooned to their dominant feel during the same decades). The biggest difference is that the brand that the USA is not old or has little heritage, has been along fo…

Only Americans think 250 years is old. My home town is closer to 600 years old, and the nearby castle started construction about 750 years ago. The local history can be traced straight to the stone age.

There are buildings in the United States that are older than the United States, but this does not somehow make the United States less valuable than a building

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#190
post #87

Clickbait title. Japanese do cut trees. This technique is just used in very minor situations.

Given I was asked for my location, popup permission and signup before I could even read the article, the title is the least of it's problems.

Hrm, didn't happen for me.

. o O ( A/B test, maybe? )

Post reply on HN