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Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

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Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#171

Post by eloff »

hfbff wrote: post #168
eloff wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A German friend phrased it this way for Americans: We have beers older than your country. The depth of history and culture in Europe never ceased to amaze me while I was travelling there, especially in Greece and Italy. I grew up on the prairies in Canada, there was pretty much nothing there 120 years ago.

I don't know about your corner in Canada, but that "there was nothing here 150 years ago" is a dangerous lie told by people in many parts of the USA and Canada that minimized the indigenous people and occupied their land. Your part of Canada might truly be somewhere with no indigenous presence

There was not much in the way of civilization there 150 years ago. There were indigenous, sure.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#172

Post by relaxing »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #149
relaxing wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re talking about the length of history, there’s no intersection.

There are ancient indigenous civilizations that continue to this day in America, or do we deny their history is part of the history of America? The history of the political Germany is very short if we are talking about established political institutions.

Yes, we worked very deliberately to eradicate those indigenous civilizations, and finally isolate what remained of them from white America.

I’m not sure why people keep bringing up political institutions when the conversation is clearly about cultural institutions.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#173

Post by relaxing »

tomrod wrote: post #143
relaxing wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re talking about the length of history, there’s no intersection.

Clearly there is, from the industrial revolution forward. France tried to completely recreate itself several times during this period. By way of example, we no longer call it the Frankish lands nor the monarchy. Aggregate governance structures have changed tens of times, whereas the US really hasn't changed dramatically in the post Native American and post Revolution periods.

The French national identity goes back to Charlemagne, not merely de Gaulle.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#174

Post by pencilguin »

slashdev wrote: post #124
thechao wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest city in the "middle ages" was in the US. Europeans trot that "no history" story out because saying "... and then Europeans engaged in the largest genocide in human history" doesn't feel as good, I guess? There was definitely an interruption and a regime change — Europe's got a lot more of those a lot more recently than the US — but the history is there, if you care to look.

That's just factually incorrect. The largest pre-colonization city in the US was a piddling 20,000. Even Uruk in ancient Mesopatmia, was more than twice that size over 5000 years ago. Presumably you're referring to Tenochtitlan where Mexico City is today, which is neither in the US, nor was it larger than European cities at the time (although it was up there with Paris and Naples!)

No post body was provided.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#175

Post by brigandish »

rsynnott wrote: post #104
brigandish wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth remembering that adoption is much different to how we’d conceive of it in Europe. If a business wasn’t going to be continued by the offspring then a new business owner could be adopted, as an adult. That’s why there seems to be so many Japanese concerns with incredibly long lineage, but like so much else in Japan to a westerner’s eyes, it’s appearance only. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19505088

> but like so much else in Japan to a westerner’s eyes, it’s appearance only. Eh. I'm not sure I'd call it appearance only. In some parts of "the West" (notably the Roman Republic and early Empire, but it went on a for a long time after that) adult adoption as a succession/continuity-of-business mechanism was commonplace. Notable Roman examples include the _first two emperors_ (Augustus/Octavian was adopted by Julius…

I meant modern eyes but point taken, that is indeed interesting.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#176

Post by alvarezbjm-hn »

eloff wrote: post #171
hfbff wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about your corner in Canada, but that "there was nothing here 150 years ago" is a dangerous lie told by people in many parts of the USA and Canada that minimized the indigenous people and occupied their land. Your part of Canada might truly be somewhere with no indigenous presence

There was not much in the way of civilization there 150 years ago. There were indigenous, sure.

How is a self sufficient society with its own language not a civilization?

Maybe you meant to say "We didn't leave much of that civilization"

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#177

Post by fredestine »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #53
fredestine wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well its relative. for instance japanese parks are horrible. paris parks are a thing of beauty. the mayor is indeed contributing to make it a dirty agressive and expensive city by not fighting crime, mass tourism (she loves it. somehow she hates french people having cars but she is fine with rich tourists riding cabs in paris) and all the theft that is related to mass tourism... customer service is not at the level o…

She? Come on, Paris has always been like that.

between her and her mentor its been a single power in place since 2001 so I don't know what you define by "always" but it definitly got worse from 2001 and so on with a sharp acceleration when she got into power. paris debt too.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#178

Post by alvarezbjm-hn »

selimthegrim wrote: post #142
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, ancient Greek tourists vandalised pyramids in ancient Egypt. There also exist some text on walls with phrases one would expect to find in schools, it’s just that it’s in Ancient Greek. It’s odd to think that not only time before you existed, but it was packed with people who had more or less the same issues and concerns as you do.

They were ruling Egypt at the time as an upper caste

I think the ruling class of "newer" Egypt was greek.

Pyramid Egypt is "older" Egypt, whose civilization had already died out a long time before that.

Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org /wiki/Ancient_Egypt "Old Kingdom" is pyramid Egypt "New Kingdom" is greek Egypt

There was a weak Middle Kingdom, too

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#179

Post by xg15 »

xg15 wrote: post #80
defrost wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It resurfaced again in 1998 [1] [1] https://www.discogs.com/release/1251099-Various-Satori-A-Tri...

Oh, that's cool! I also found this bit [1]. So there really seems to be a connection between Sukiya-zukuri and Bauhaus: > In 1954 Walter Gropius, founder of the Bauhaus visited Katsura Detached Palace and was so struck by it that in 1960 he co-authored Katsura: Tradition and Creation Japanese Architecture with Kenzo Tange. (Though the book quote in the article seems to be about Zen gardens, which reads to me as maxim…

...ok, knowing historical dates is advantageous :)

The art school existed from 1919-1933. So if he went to Japan in 1954, obviously it couldn't have been an influence.

Fun coincidence nevertheless.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#180

Post by vanderZwan »

throwuwu wrote: post #97
vanderZwan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible, but nobody has successfully tried. It would require a combination of expert knowledge, the kind of long-term thinking/investment that the market currently is set up against, plus a lot of money over a long period of time to be able to afford experimenting like that in the first place. It will probably take state-sponsored forestry research to figure this out.

Or, you know, a retiree with a penchant for forestry and gardening. All it takes is interest, just look at the community of people obsessed with grafting or other botanical pursuits.

Well, given the time frames we're talking about they might lack the remaining lifespan needed to see a project like this through to the end. Definitely an option to get such a project rolling though.

And your second point is valid too - we shouldn't underestimate the internet's ability to give niche subcommunities a chance to flourish even when people are physically far apart.

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