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Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

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Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#91

Post by myaccount9786 »

cjonas wrote: post #83
myaccount9786 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to point out the obvious: if you are staying at 1300 for over 1y, you are not improving and likely not understanding why you are losing. I would recommend you study rather than banging your head against the wall by playing more games. Opening theory and tactics are a good place to start. An easy step is make sure you know a few common openings and have at least one response prepared to each. But also a good…

I think your just trying to be helpful, but ya it did come off as pretty patronizing. You've also assumed incorrectly that "getting better" is the most important thing when playing chess... I play chess because I find it fun, relaxing and a great way to blow off stress. Studying opening and caring too much about rating ruins that. Rated play is awesome because I always get paired with someone of similar skill. I do f…

Why complain about not getting better than 1300 then? My point is there are a lot of different levers to pull to get better and imo it's interesting to learn more tactics.

The game does become more interesting as you get better. At least up to 1850 in my personal experience. At <=1400 level the game is more like gambling imo, hoping opponent will fall into trap or miss a move.

Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#92

Post by myaccount9786 »

incomingpain wrote: post #78
myaccount9786 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to point out the obvious: if you are staying at 1300 for over 1y, you are not improving and likely not understanding why you are losing. I would recommend you study rather than banging your head against the wall by playing more games. Opening theory and tactics are a good place to start. An easy step is make sure you know a few common openings and have at least one response prepared to each. But also a good…

>P.S. I don't believe the comment above yours. The dude went from 2200 to 1300?? Like I could provide links to my games. I'm not a liar. I estimate I am a 1800-2000 player. The thing I don't seem to know, it would seem to me when I play against a 1300 who never makes a blunder or mistake. It then happens 20 games straight. They certainly play various inaccuracies, and I hold myself as well as I do compared to stockfi…

I don't believe anyone could be 2200 and fall to 1300 because I am 1800 and I crush 1300s 99% of the time. And 2200s will crush me 99% of the time. How that decline happens?

So you're saying that you could crush me but are getting beat by 1300s who anyone at 1800 could crush easily? F to doubt.

Edit: for example https://www.318chess.com/elo.html. there is a statistical analysis of lichess data as well but it went down a few years ago.

Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#93

Post by [deleted] »

myaccount9786 wrote: post #74
myaccount9786 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh haha N=2 here, so you are probably right. Survivorship bias on my part. I posted these stats in another thread: According to https://lichess.org/analysis#1 , for blitz and rapid games played on lichess with 1.e4, 1...e5 is 33%, 1...c5 is 25% and 1...e6 is 10%. And 35% is some other nonsense.

Does it use the frequencies from the lichess database? That would be pretty cool if it did!

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#94

Post by tzs »

One or two possible bugs/annoyances.

1. It got down to my White King on b3, my Knight on h6 vs its King on h2 and its Pawn on g5, with it to move.

It had around 6:50 on the clock and I had 3:36.

It spent nearly 3.5 minutes on the move so its clock was around 3:20 when it moved (Kh3)...and then it got so much increment back that it ended up somewhere round 6:55.

Here's the game score in case it helps [1]. The score does not show the one take-back I used. If that's relevant it was on move 27, right after the first Rook trade.I completely overlooked that the Bishop on c4 was hitting my Rook on f1 and moved the Knight to c3 intending to then move the Rook to c1. Oops...took that back to instead move the Rook first and then the Knight.

2. The game continued 46. Kc3 g4 47. Nxg4 and draw due to insufficient mating material on both sides. I then got the modal dialog telling me my rating estimate (17something FIDE, 20something Lichess) [2]. With that modal up I could not select the game score to copy it, and it sounded like all the options to dismiss the model would likely take me to somewhere new.

I ended up taking a screen shot, opening the screen shot in Preview on my Mac, and selecting the text in the screen shot and copying that.

If the modal at the end indeed cannot be dismissed without going somewhere else, it would be nice to provide a way to copy the game score before leaving.

[1] 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 e5 5. Nxc6 bxc6 6. Bd3 Nf6 7. 0-0 Bc5 8. Qe2 0-0 9. Nc3 d6 10. Bg5 h6 11. Bxf6 Qxf6 12. Kh1 a5 13. a4 Be6 14. f3 Rab8 15. b3 Bd4 16. Qe1 Rfc8 17. Rd1 d5 18. Nb1 c5 19. c3 c4 20. cxd4 cxd3 21. dxe5 Qxe5 22. Rxd3 dxe4 23. Qxe4 Qxe4 24. fxe4 Bxb3 25. Rd4 Rc4 26. Rxc4 Bxc4 27. Rc1 Be6 28. Nc3 Rb4 29. Kg1 Kh7 30. Kf2 Kg6 31. Ke3 Kf6 32. Ra1 Ke5 33. Rb1 Bb3 34. Rb2 Bxa4 35. Rxb4 axb4 36. Nxa4 f5 37. exf5 Kxf5 38. Kd4 b3 39. Kc3 Kf4 40. Kxb3 Ke3 41. Nc3 Kf2 42. Nd1+ Kxg2 43. Ne3+ Kxh2 44. Nf5 g5 45. Nxh6 Kh3 46. Kc3 g4 47. Nxg4

[2] Seems plausible. I haven't played tournament chess in ~30 years. When I did my USCF rating had a high of 1611 and was mid 1500s when I stopped, so 17something FIDE seems a bit high. On the other hand I have done a ton of tactical puzzles in the last few years, so it is possible I'm better than I was 30 years ago (except I've forgotten everything I knew about openings). My Lichess puzzle rating is around 2100. I haven't played any online games with humans so don't have an online rating anywhere.

Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#95

Post by cjonas »

myaccount9786 wrote: post #91
cjonas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your just trying to be helpful, but ya it did come off as pretty patronizing. You've also assumed incorrectly that "getting better" is the most important thing when playing chess... I play chess because I find it fun, relaxing and a great way to blow off stress. Studying opening and caring too much about rating ruins that. Rated play is awesome because I always get paired with someone of similar skill. I do f…

Why complain about not getting better than 1300 then? My point is there are a lot of different levers to pull to get better and imo it's interesting to learn more tactics. The game does become more interesting as you get better. At least up to 1850 in my personal experience. At <=1400 level the game is more like gambling imo, hoping opponent will fall into trap or miss a move.

Nothing in my post was complaining about not getting better. You must have misinterpreted what I said.

It seems like as you increase in rating, chess would become more about who can memorize the most lines or how well you have studied the opening theory. That personally sounds miserable to me.

I actually enjoy the fact that lower rated matches allow many fun lines that are "objectively bad" to be completely viable. Of course, I hope my game will continue to improve, but I'm careful not to take it too seriously.

There's a saying in skiing that I like to apply to all my hobbies:

The best skier on the mountain is the one who's having the most fun :)

Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#96

Post by knaik94 »

The two main issues I found is that doing any premoves breaks the AI every time. Earlier, I thought it was an issue with traffic but after playing a few games, I realized it's not. The AI just stops responding to a premove, it doesn't register as me having moved but the clock remains frozen.

The other issue is that the AI weighs weak openings way very heavily for both elo and responses. I enjoy chess960 and am weak on my openings, my elo is estimated to be between 1000 and 1400 standard otb 10+5, and my lichess puzzle elo is 1600. Noctie gave me an elo of 500ish even when I won. The response moves weren't challenging and it felt like the game went directly to endgame after a series of aggressive exchanges. Look forward to seeing where this goes.

Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#97

Post by myaccount9786 »

cjonas wrote: post #95
myaccount9786 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why complain about not getting better than 1300 then? My point is there are a lot of different levers to pull to get better and imo it's interesting to learn more tactics. The game does become more interesting as you get better. At least up to 1850 in my personal experience. At <=1400 level the game is more like gambling imo, hoping opponent will fall into trap or miss a move.

Nothing in my post was complaining about not getting better. You must have misinterpreted what I said. It seems like as you increase in rating, chess would become more about who can memorize the most lines or how well you have studied the opening theory. That personally sounds miserable to me. I actually enjoy the fact that lower rated matches allow many fun lines that are "objectively bad" to be completely viable. O…

Ok, maybe opening theory is less fun.

But tactics are very fun. They're not about memorization, but about calculation and pattern recognition. If you get good enough, you get to sacrifice all kinds of material if you calculate. Bxg6. Raaaar!

Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#98

Post by desmosxxx »

MereGurudev wrote: post #85
desmosxxx wrote: post #81

Very cool but noctie seems to be timing out now - worked fine for me the first two times. Does noctie treat the opening any differently when factoring in ratings. I had two very different estimes - higher one (2100) was from an opening line i knew and lower one (1500) I left the opening more quickly but I don't think I played a much worse middle game. I'm closer to 1500. [edit: from your other comment it does look li…

Thanks! Yes, the traffic from here exposed a few issues & bottlenecks in the backend infrastructure. I have resolved most of them and it seems to be running OK now (?). To answer your questions: Noctie takes every move into account. Especially in short games or very one-sided games, a lot of the rating estimate will come from your opening play. If you play a bad opening, Noctie adapts and you will get an easier game,…

Awesome work & thank you for the replies!

Re: Show HN: Noctie – A chess AI that predicts your rating

#99

Post by infomaniac »

Very accurate! Just 10 points off my chess.com rating.

Although, there was an unfortunate bug... I couldn't promote a pawn, and that severely impacted the endgame. I'm on mobile Brave, and attempting to promote presumably tried to bring up some modal, but instead it just glitched.

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