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Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

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Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#111

Post by randomdata »

filchermcurr wrote: post #86
randomdata wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was always told in school that I needed to take notes. So I did. And then I had no idea what was going on because all of my energy went into taking notes. Eventually I gave up. It's amazing how much you can learn when you simply listen. I wish I would have realized that sooner.

I find it odd that we were always encouraged to take notes, but never once taught how to do it. Most people tried to furiously write what was being said verbatim, which is definitely not ideal. A simple introduction to note taking would have helped so many people. More to your point, that's definitely a strategy that works for some people. When I had two weeks of jury duty, everybody was pretty consistently scribblin…

> I find it odd that we were always encouraged to take notes, but never once taught how to do it.

Perhaps there were attempts to teach how to do it but it was lost amid all the note taking?

Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#112

Post by munk-a »

For some people - people learn and remember in different ways and writing by hand (if physically difficult, say you have an essential tremor (points at self)) can require enough focus that it actually makes it difficult to retain information instead being overly focused. Different folks have different learning and retention habits and while these sorts of articles are helpful in learning methods that are commonly useful they shouldn't be taken as gospel.

Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#113

Post by spidersouris »

ianbutler wrote: post #54

I wonder if we've done comparative work between paper writing and writing in something like Obsidian for not retaining the full work but effective downstream use? What I mean: When I write something I remember all of it, ironclad, written on my soul levels of remembrance. When I type something, I don't get that, but I get something akin to a pointer. I don't remember the content but I know it's stored in Obsidian/Doc…

Agreed. I take notes for my university classes either by using my tablet to type in a markdown file (the content of which I then transfer to Obsidian) or by writing by hand in a small notebook (and then adding the most important things to Obsidian). In both cases, what comes to my memory when thinking about my note-taking is how it's organized in Obsidian and in what part of my file.

One of the biggest advantages of taking notes digitally (or, at least, transforming hand-written content into digital content), which the article fails to mention, is the fact that you can easily CTRL+F to find the information you are looking for. This has helped me so many times during my studies. This is impossible to do with hand-written notes.

To add to what you said regarding a comparative work between paper writing and digital writing, I'd also like to see other ways of remembering content being taken into account. Writing by hand may "still [be] the best way to retain information", but the article seems to miss that writing is only one way of remembering things.

Let's say person A is taking notes by hand and doing nothing else, and person B is taking notes digitally and then using spaced repetition to remember what they have written. We can easily say that person B will retain much more information than person A. I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if they both used spaced repetition. I doubt there would be much difference in the end. What matters is the way information is encoded in one's long-term memory, not the way is it collected.

Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#114

Post by moffkalast »

moth-fuzz wrote: post #108

I'm going to challenge the question - if I've got something written down, why would I need to memorize it? Maybe in school where closed-notes tests are a thing, sure, but nowhere in the 'real-world' tests one's ability to memorize in the strict sense. I write things down for a reason and that reason is not just accessory to memorizing it. I put things on paper precisely so I don't have to put them in my brain. To kee…

Before the internet was a thing the only two ways to get information were by remembering it (or remembering by proxy by asking somebody else) or checking a book. Since it was still impossible to lug around an entire library, schooling gave a large emphasis on memorization.

These days at least some university tier education has adapted to the model of just acquainting people with a concept quickly to the point where they can search for it when they need it. Most of the educational system still needs to catch up though.

Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#115

Post by beezlebroxxxxxx »

moth-fuzz wrote: post #108

I'm going to challenge the question - if I've got something written down, why would I need to memorize it? Maybe in school where closed-notes tests are a thing, sure, but nowhere in the 'real-world' tests one's ability to memorize in the strict sense. I write things down for a reason and that reason is not just accessory to memorizing it. I put things on paper precisely so I don't have to put them in my brain. To kee…

> I put things on paper precisely so I don't have to put them in my brain. To keep them in both places would be redundant.

I think that makes sense if your only goal is to reference the information, like looking up information in a personal library. But I like to write by hand so I can record my understanding of the information, my putting the information in context in my own words. Sometimes I'll never refer to the written thing again. The writing is part of the leading to understanding by way of reformulating the information into my own words --- situating it in a context that makes sense for me. Writing by hand feels more connected to the development of my understanding. Typing never really gets to that point for me.

But I think it's also very subject oriented. Writing in a technical context requires handling information in a different way than if it's in a more analytical or critical/expository context.

Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#116

Post by amerkhalid »

crazygringo wrote: post #35

I just want to add a gigantic caveat: NOT FOR EVERYBODY. I know a lot of people who insist writing by hand helps them. But I also know it's TERRIBLE for me personally. The article claims: > Writing by hand on paper creates a tactile, personalized experience... The complex experience of hand writing on paper contains a multitude of variable elements: the creativity of an individual’s written representation of language…

It maybe if you grew up writing with pencil or typing.

For me writing is huge help in retaining information. I also know people who swear by typing but they all are younger who grew up with computers.

Also the handwritten notes don’t need to write everything in alphabets. The biggest advantage of writing is freeform. I could draw a diagram or other doodles. My old notes of drawings of the classroom, random objects, etc. I think those doodles helped me retain some information.

Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#117

Post by hkon »

keiferski wrote: post #106

This reminds me of the Steve Jobs comment [1] about condors and bicycles: “I read a study that measured the efficiency of locomotion for various species on the planet. The condor used the least energy to move a kilometer. And, humans came in with a rather unimpressive showing, about a third of the way down the list. It was not too proud a showing for the crown of creation. So, that didn’t look so good. But, then some…

I find that most times the goal is just to have the information, and when you write it down by hand in the first place you're more likely to remember it. Seems overkill to put more effort into it.

Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#118

Post by elevation »

Handwriting may be a good way to reinforce what you've already learned. But it can also act as a crutch which disengages your brain before you've processed new information more deeply.

I have a coworker who hand writes nearly all technical information spoken in meetings and 1 on 1 conversations, and yet remains incredibly ineffective at recall.

The problem is she lacks a mental model of the topic, so she has no structure around which to organize incoming facts. Being unable to assess the relative importance of a new fact, she dutifully transcribes everything she hears -- but never becomes able to summarize or reason about it. This also means that she's unable to correct herself when she's mistranscribed something, such as substituting Gigabytes with Gigahertz. Little of what she writes is worth retaining.

If you're unclear about what's being discussed, it can be so much more effective to put the pencil down and ask a few questions.

Re: Writing by hand is still the best way to retain information

#119

Post by nradov »

WalterBright wrote: post #82

Yup. The way to attend a lecture is to leave your laptop behind. Take a cheap spiral notebook and a couple colored pens. Take notes. Once the notebook is filled (or the semester is over) scan the pages, toss the notebook, and buy a fresh one for the next semester. It works, from much personal experience You're welcome! 1. yes, sometimes I fall behind the lecturer taking notes, which can be a bit frustrating 2. while…

This never worked for me. The physical process of writing is just so slow and awkward that it distracts me and inhibits learning. Yes, I tried using higher quality pens and different writing techniques. Nothing really helped. So forget writing by hand, for me it's worse than useless. YMMV.
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