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AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

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Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#171

Post by lowbloodsugar »

Dieselroar88 wrote: post #23

It seems like the actual story here is entirely ignored: Why are a bunch of journalists concerned with how fast they can send out a push notification?? is the world that creates that incentive healthy? What can we do to remove the incentive that led to people having this kind of a discussion on a slack channel while one dude is at a doctors appointment? This seems like an utter failure of the editorial process in thi…

Scoop: "a piece of news published by a newspaper or broadcast by a television or radio station in advance of its rivals. The word scoop is of American origin, first documented in 1874. As a verb, meaning to beat someone in reporting first, it is first recorded in 1884."

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#172

Post by cloverich »

oefrha wrote: post #140
mc32 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who say things like “American missiles fired by Ukraine?” It would only make sense to say that if US troops on the ground hosted by Ukraine fired the missiles. It’s stupid. No one says Chinese AK-47s fired by Ukrainian soldiers. Someone was playing stupid.

If you pay attention, you’ll realize media often use ambiguous titles that are technically correct, in a sense, but which most of their audience will interpret in a different and wrong way that fits their agenda. It’s really common when it comes to reporting on geopolitical rivals. Usually not this blatant, though. Btw, there are a lot of reporting on how Russia uses Chinese drones, often without mentioning Ukraine u…

While I very much agree w/ your points -- the Chinese drones in Russia is a little different. Because of sanctions against Russia (and not Ukraine), the source of their drones is very meaningful. I.e. If the majority of their usable munitions are from China, and the US can pressure China into stopping that, they can stop the flow of munitions to Russia in a meaningful sense. Given that's a key part of the strategy I think reporting on where Russia's sourcing its drones is extremely relevant, while generally irrelevant when the context is Ukrainian usage.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#173

Post by cloverich »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #153
MichaelCollins wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who say things like “American missiles fired by Ukraine?” Russia-aligned internet commenters seem to say things like that a lot. I think it's part of their cope; Russia couldn't be struggling against Ukrainians... no... they're struggling against Ukrainians with American weapons! I guess this is gentler on their egos.

I mean… that is the truth though. Without the full force of US Intelligence and more money sent to Ukraine this year than any year of the Iraq/Afghanistan war… yes, Ukraine would have folded months ago. This is very clearly a proxy war.

I'm not sure it is a proxy war, as the Ukrainian government is not being instigated by the US. Granted I'm not v. familiar w/ Ukrainian politics but if the Ukrainian leadership is democratically elected, and the population is generally against Russian leaders taking over the country (this part seems likely), it is much closer to an alliance no? In the same way the US supplied Russia with materials in WWII -- while clearly of a much different scale and impact -- it would seem awkward and inaccurate to claim the Nazi's were fighting the US when they were invading Russia.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#174

Post by MichaelCollins »

anshumankmr wrote: post #154
MichaelCollins wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What can we do to remove the incentive that led to people having this kind of a discussion on a slack channel while one dude is at a doctors appointment? Delete the internet, then return to newspapers published once a day. Short of that, it's hopeless. With continuous 24/7 publishing, journalists race to beat each other.

Newspapers have had made very public blunders all the time, and have had extremely bad consequences already. Sure the internet has made it worse, but there would a difference in having comparatively localized consequences versus this, which would be technically WW3.

> which would be technically WW3.

I think it's important to remember that NATO isn't an unthinking machine that executes mechanistically. Supposing Russia had been responsible for those missiles, I sincerely doubt that would have been the start of WW3. Nobody really wants that outcome, so the humans in the loop would bend over backwards to find a way to prevent that. This might mean pretending to not notice the missile strikes, or asserting they were accidents. I think both Russia and NATO would prefer Russia admitting to an accident and paying out some reparations to a full blown WW3.

WW3 happens if there's really no other choice, as perceived by NATO and/or Russian leadership.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#175

Post by 95014_refugee »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #148
Dieselroar88 wrote: post #23

It seems like the actual story here is entirely ignored: Why are a bunch of journalists concerned with how fast they can send out a push notification?? is the world that creates that incentive healthy? What can we do to remove the incentive that led to people having this kind of a discussion on a slack channel while one dude is at a doctors appointment? This seems like an utter failure of the editorial process in thi…

The answer isn't to hope others do the right thing or try to find ways to force them to, it is to learn to deal with them not doing the right thing. People should learn (or be taught) to distrust journalists, "experts", politicians, corporations, police, courts, government agencies, celebrities, and anybody who would try to influence our opinion or exert power over us. Fortunately many people have recently been inocu…

Teaching people to distrust experts is what got us COVID. Do not recommend.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#176

Post by josephb »

cloverich wrote: post #173
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean… that is the truth though. Without the full force of US Intelligence and more money sent to Ukraine this year than any year of the Iraq/Afghanistan war… yes, Ukraine would have folded months ago. This is very clearly a proxy war.

I'm not sure it is a proxy war, as the Ukrainian government is not being instigated by the US. Granted I'm not v. familiar w/ Ukrainian politics but if the Ukrainian leadership is democratically elected, and the population is generally against Russian leaders taking over the country (this part seems likely), it is much closer to an alliance no? In the same way the US supplied Russia with materials in WWII -- while cl…

> I'm not sure it is a proxy war, as the Ukrainian government is not being instigated by the US.

Ukraine military spending is ~$6b/yr [0] and so far this year the US has sent ~$57b of "aid" to Ukraine [1], of which ~$27b is military.

The total US commitment dwarfs the contribution from all other countries [2] and it appears there is a request for another ~$38b [3] of which ~$21b is military spending.

So while one could claim that the US is not instigating Ukraine govt to war, it's clear that the US is funding a greater part of the military activities by providing equipment for the war to the tune of at least (to date) 4-5x Ukraine's normal military spending each year.

[0]. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293277/ukraine-military... [1]. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-... [2]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine... [3]. https://www.defensenews.com/congress/budget/2022/11/15/white...

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#177

Post by throwawaylinux »

95014_refugee wrote: post #175
throwawaylinux wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer isn't to hope others do the right thing or try to find ways to force them to, it is to learn to deal with them not doing the right thing. People should learn (or be taught) to distrust journalists, "experts", politicians, corporations, police, courts, government agencies, celebrities, and anybody who would try to influence our opinion or exert power over us. Fortunately many people have recently been inocu…

Teaching people to distrust experts is what got us COVID. Do not recommend.

I don't think so. That sounds like typical disinformation spread by journalists and authoritarians.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#179

Post by miguelazo »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #145
miguelazo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And the planes that dropped those bombs could only perform their sorties because they were refueled midair by US pilots.

And if we're going down this road, the targets were often provided by US intelligence. Still, Saudi's did the bombing so our hands are squeaky clean.

Yes, thank you for bringing that up! Although rather than “often,” I would say “almost exclusively provided by US intelligence.”

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#180

Post by antonvs »

ajross wrote: post #12
HWR_14 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . He needed another source or more context To publish, maybe. He was at a doctors appointment, got a tip, and passed it to his boss. He didn't write the news alert. If they wanted more context, the other people on the chat should have found some.

That's not how I read the linked story? That particular Slack message happened to coincide with his doctor's appointment, but the article that printed had his byline on it. Surely he wrote it, or at the very least dictated it to an editor who put it in the system. No one publishes stories on the wire based on a two-message slack thread sent from the doctor's office!

> No one publishes stories on the wire based on a two-message slack thread sent from the doctor's office!

Seems like an optimistic assumption.

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