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Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

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Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#141

Post by cschmidt »

hedgehog wrote: post #101
kriro wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's quite a few in Germany. The most famous one is probably Merck (1668). There's a couple of really old banks (Berenberg Bank in Hamburg, 1590) and the industry with the most old companies is probably the glas industry. There's a couple of companies from the 15xx and 16xx. If you're into hiking, you probably heard about Meindl shoes (1683). There's also a lot of breweries, especially small ones in Frankonia. And…

Wikipedia has a list (of course), it's pretty interesting to read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies

The continuity of family companies in Japan also comes from the practice of adult adoption, when the family line doesn't have a suitable successor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_adult_adoption

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#142

Post by selimthegrim »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #135
eloff wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A German friend phrased it this way for Americans: We have beers older than your country. The depth of history and culture in Europe never ceased to amaze me while I was travelling there, especially in Greece and Italy. I grew up on the prairies in Canada, there was pretty much nothing there 120 years ago.

Apparently, ancient Greek tourists vandalised pyramids in ancient Egypt. There also exist some text on walls with phrases one would expect to find in schools, it’s just that it’s in Ancient Greek. It’s odd to think that not only time before you existed, but it was packed with people who had more or less the same issues and concerns as you do.

They were ruling Egypt at the time as an upper caste

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#143

Post by tomrod »

relaxing wrote: post #138
tomrod wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not American exceptionalism to show the similarities to Europe, simply a note of likeness. No need to be hostile to the notion of identifying intersecting attributes.

We’re talking about the length of history, there’s no intersection.

Clearly there is, from the industrial revolution forward.

France tried to completely recreate itself several times during this period. By way of example, we no longer call it the Frankish lands nor the monarchy. Aggregate governance structures have changed tens of times, whereas the US really hasn't changed dramatically in the post Native American and post Revolution periods.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#145

Post by tjpnz »

Obsnold wrote: post #9

Does the Japanese government pay for or in some way support articles like this? Do people in Japan get articles about how amazing coppicing is in the UK? Articles like this about Japan make me feel a bit weird but I kind of wish we were better at fetishising our own produce and practices like we do with the Japanese.

We get articles about all facets of western culture and practices in the Japanese press. As someone who was born in the UK I've often learned things about European culture which I didn't know before.

Japan like the UK and US is a cultural superpower. When you're able to wield that much soft power no money ever needs to change hands.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#146

Post by yonaguska »

creaturemachine wrote: post #120
eloff wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A German friend phrased it this way for Americans: We have beers older than your country. The depth of history and culture in Europe never ceased to amaze me while I was travelling there, especially in Greece and Italy. I grew up on the prairies in Canada, there was pretty much nothing there 120 years ago.

Europeans have no awareness of aboriginal history since they simply didn't have anything like it, so of course their version of history and culture is assumed to be the standard.

I think the lack of awareness is more due to the lack of written records.

I'm not so sure that I would say that there is no "awareness", and if there is a lack of awareness- it seems more likely that the lack of awareness is due to the fact that everyone is self centric, Europeans are going to be more aware of European history, in the same way that having grown up in a very specific region of the US, I am more well versed in the local native history than someone that wouldn't be. For instance, in elementary school, we went to visit native burial mounds and were educated on the local native history. All the native names for roads, towns, etc, they were local tribes that we learned about.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#147

Post by mrkstu »

relaxing wrote: post #128
hattmall wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would any of these have been the same people? Like is it conceivable the same family lineage in Paris 0-1100, or even 2k years to now or would the war, conquest, etc have changed the demographics considerably?

Lineage in terms of common ancestor and shared DNA? Of course. It’s pretty rare for invasions to result in the wholesale slaughter and replacement of a population.

Well, depends- it’s actually fairly common in earlier ages. In the last thousand years or so a bit less, and last 100 basically not at all.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#148

Post by fnordpiglet »

relaxing wrote: post #113
trgn wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, USA has the oldest constitution, and east coast cities for all intents and purposes are 250 years old. If Europe's imperial capitals are essentially 19th century inventions, so are America's (Paris, NYC, Barcelona, Philadelphia, ... all ballooned to their dominant feel during the same decades). The biggest difference is that the brand that the USA is not old or has little heritage, has been along fo…

Just because the US happened to be founded in the Age of Enlightenment that doesn't magically grant us heritage back to antiquity. And the argument isn't about the size of cities or political organization. But for reference, Philadelphia in 1790 had population 28k. That's on par with Paris around year 0 in the Roman era, or roughly year 1100 as the city recovered in the middle ages.

I always found these statements interesting. Heritage follows a cultural lineage that doesn’t attach necessarily to political institutions. Much of Europe’s political structure post dates the US. The heritage of the US is extraordinarily rich and inherits the heritage of the entire planet as cultures have immigrated and integrated. We have very clear direct heritages to England, Ireland, Italy, Germany, France, China, India, Japan, Russia, Greece, to name a few. Every American city has a “town” for these cultures. Are they not our heritage? How can they possibly not be?

Japan has a very clear monoculture heritage for a very long time. But part of British heritage is Roman occupied England is it not? Germany shares a heritage with Prussia. Much of the world has some Mongolian heritage, don’t they? You can see the influence not just in genetics but in art and culture. How is that not their heritage?

If this is true, then perhaps the issue isn’t that America has no heritage, but that it is so comprehensive that it’s impossible to pin it down to something as distinct as a monoculture?

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#149

Post by fnordpiglet »

relaxing wrote: post #138
tomrod wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not American exceptionalism to show the similarities to Europe, simply a note of likeness. No need to be hostile to the notion of identifying intersecting attributes.

We’re talking about the length of history, there’s no intersection.

There are ancient indigenous civilizations that continue to this day in America, or do we deny their history is part of the history of America? The history of the political Germany is very short if we are talking about established political institutions.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#150

Post by fnordpiglet »

tomrod wrote: post #143
relaxing wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re talking about the length of history, there’s no intersection.

Clearly there is, from the industrial revolution forward. France tried to completely recreate itself several times during this period. By way of example, we no longer call it the Frankish lands nor the monarchy. Aggregate governance structures have changed tens of times, whereas the US really hasn't changed dramatically in the post Native American and post Revolution periods.

I think give the US is a collection of independent states the massive growth of states in the 1800’s might count as another transformative period for the political institution, which has been relatively stable since the 1900’s with 5 state governments being established (most front loaded the ~first decade).
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