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Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

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Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#131

Post by PaulHoule »

Beavers in the wet meadow by my driveway coppice willows to produce large amounts of material on a sustainable basis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing

I've not only seen the results but I've actually pulled the wood out of their dams by hand when I disassemble them to prevent them from flooding my driveway. It's not that hard to do so long as you keep the water level low. Once the water level gets high they get a lot more productive because they can easily float large amounts of wood.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#133

Post by tomrod »

relaxing wrote: post #113
trgn wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, USA has the oldest constitution, and east coast cities for all intents and purposes are 250 years old. If Europe's imperial capitals are essentially 19th century inventions, so are America's (Paris, NYC, Barcelona, Philadelphia, ... all ballooned to their dominant feel during the same decades). The biggest difference is that the brand that the USA is not old or has little heritage, has been along fo…

Just because the US happened to be founded in the Age of Enlightenment that doesn't magically grant us heritage back to antiquity. And the argument isn't about the size of cities or political organization. But for reference, Philadelphia in 1790 had population 28k. That's on par with Paris around year 0 in the Roman era, or roughly year 1100 as the city recovered in the middle ages.

It's not American exceptionalism to show the similarities to Europe, simply a note of likeness. No need to be hostile to the notion of identifying intersecting attributes.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#134

Post by markhahn »

creaturemachine wrote: post #120
eloff wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A German friend phrased it this way for Americans: We have beers older than your country. The depth of history and culture in Europe never ceased to amaze me while I was travelling there, especially in Greece and Italy. I grew up on the prairies in Canada, there was pretty much nothing there 120 years ago.

Europeans have no awareness of aboriginal history since they simply didn't have anything like it, so of course their version of history and culture is assumed to be the standard.

surely you aren't saying that current euro cultures are "original". perhaps you're saying that previous cultures were more/more-often absorbed and incorporated?

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#135

Post by PartiallyTyped »

eloff wrote: post #103
kriro wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's quite a few in Germany. The most famous one is probably Merck (1668). There's a couple of really old banks (Berenberg Bank in Hamburg, 1590) and the industry with the most old companies is probably the glas industry. There's a couple of companies from the 15xx and 16xx. If you're into hiking, you probably heard about Meindl shoes (1683). There's also a lot of breweries, especially small ones in Frankonia. And…

A German friend phrased it this way for Americans: We have beers older than your country. The depth of history and culture in Europe never ceased to amaze me while I was travelling there, especially in Greece and Italy. I grew up on the prairies in Canada, there was pretty much nothing there 120 years ago.

Apparently, ancient Greek tourists vandalised pyramids in ancient Egypt. There also exist some text on walls with phrases one would expect to find in schools, it’s just that it’s in Ancient Greek.

It’s odd to think that not only time before you existed, but it was packed with people who had more or less the same issues and concerns as you do.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#136

Post by ElevenLathe »

stryan wrote: post #127
slashdev wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just factually incorrect. The largest pre-colonization city in the US was a piddling 20,000. Even Uruk in ancient Mesopatmia, was more than twice that size over 5000 years ago. Presumably you're referring to Tenochtitlan where Mexico City is today, which is neither in the US, nor was it larger than European cities at the time (although it was up there with Paris and Naples!)

> That's just factually incorrect. The largest pre-colonization city in the US was a piddling 20,000 FYI, Cahokia was thought to have had a population up to 40,000 around the (IIRC) 11th century in Illinois.

For reference, Cahokia was roughly sited at present-day St. Louis.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#137

Post by bluGill »

eloff wrote: post #125
bluGill wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a lot there 120 years ago. However the natives didn't have access to the types of materials that would last in that climate, and of course Europeans destroyed their culture.

I think we disagree on the definition of "a lot". Were there even any permanent settlements on the Canadian prairies? Most of the natives were nomadic.

> Most of the natives were nomadic.

Prior to the horse they were not nomadic, the prairies don't support a nomadic way of life without some animal you can ride, and the prairies didn't have one that can be tamed, so it is clear they were not nomads. The natives didn't have access to the types of building materials that would result in permanent structures, which means there is limited evidence for archeologists to work with, but there is enough about what life was like before the horse to know it wasn't nomadic.

Once the horse came many became nomadic as the horse allowed a nomadic lifestyle that wasn't possible. It wasn't long after the horse those that Europeans wiped the natives out (small pox and the like also wipes out a lot of natives and their culture). There is reason to believe that if the Europeans had brought the horse and then left the nomadic way of life was on the verge of causing a collapse of the Bison population, which would have force major changes (most like a return to farming settlements, but massive starvation followed by some form of culture population control - or something else on these lines that you can think up)

The switch to a nomadic way of life (which was directly caused by the arrival of Europeans) cause the loss of knowledge about the older ways of life. We have to make a lot of guesses, but if you know what to look for some things become clear.

Note that we talk about natives as if they are one culture, but that is not true. There were many different cultures with different ways of life. Some adopted nomadic ways of life more than others. The horse allowed the nomads to out compete those who tried to retain the old ways, so those who didn't adopt the horse either died out (starved, assimilated) or had to move to areas that horse didn't do as well in.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#138

Post by relaxing »

tomrod wrote: post #133
relaxing wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the US happened to be founded in the Age of Enlightenment that doesn't magically grant us heritage back to antiquity. And the argument isn't about the size of cities or political organization. But for reference, Philadelphia in 1790 had population 28k. That's on par with Paris around year 0 in the Roman era, or roughly year 1100 as the city recovered in the middle ages.

It's not American exceptionalism to show the similarities to Europe, simply a note of likeness. No need to be hostile to the notion of identifying intersecting attributes.

We’re talking about the length of history, there’s no intersection.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#139

Post by thaumasiotes »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #122
thaumasiotes wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trees don't move; it's perfectly possible to guard them from poachers.

" it's perfectly possible to guard them from poachers" This is completely overlooking the sheer size of the earth and the sheer numbers of people/tech devices it would take to guard them from poachers. We can guard some trees (and some animals) from poaching, but it really is beyond us to guard them all, even if they don't move.

> This is completely overlooking the sheer size of the earth

We're talking about farmed trees. They're already under active management.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#140

Post by dktoao »

jimnotgym wrote: post #66
vanderZwan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cedar shoots in this article are claimed to be stronger and to grow quicker though

They probably mean 'stronger' in the sense of a beam, and stronger in the sense of stronger than the cedar that is not grown like that. This is probably due to the straight grain and lack of knots. That is not the property people need everywhere timber is used. Perhaps the finger board of a violin needs to be hard. The wooden bed of a scaffolding (and they are still wood in the uk) lorry needs to be tough and durable…

Electric instruments in general derive their sound mostly through the electronics. There are quite a few high end electric guitar companies (like PRS) that would like you to believe otherwise. If you are in the market for an electric instrument please don't have it made from rare, questionably sourced hardwoods!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n02tImce3AE

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