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Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

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Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#71

Post by FormerBandmate »

phpnode wrote: post #27
jongjong wrote: post #12

Simple answer; people from rich countries will use flaws in the political structures of certain other countries to install corrupt politicians; these politicians are then going to work for the interests of their rich foreign patrons and against the interests of their own people (for kickbacks/self-enrichment). The corrupt politicians will do things like saddle their people with significant public debts (which will fo…

There's really no reason to blame this on the foreigners installing corrupt politicians, corruption is far more frequently organic and homegrown. Corrupt people work to further their own goals, if that happens to be using their power to take on e.g. debt on unfavourable terms then so be it, but that's not because they're beholden to foreigners, it's because that is their best route to enriching themselves - they can…

South Korea and Ghana were at the exact same place 50 years ago. South Korea’s leadership were largely competent, so they’ve industrialized and used trade to become one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Ghana has not had nearly as good leadership and institutions, so they haven’t.

Everyone constantly blames the West for all the problems of the world. If trade was really that deleterious to developing countries, you wouldn’t see the rise of China happening at all

Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#72

Post by mdp2021 »

rejectfinite wrote: post #44
nivenkos wrote: post #31

A strange example since back then South Korea was a dictatorship that massacred over 100,000 of its own citizens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_uprising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_massacres

Okay and? Look at Samsung phones. They so good!

Neither the original post nor this answer make clear sense in the context.

The original post seems to relate that "South Korea went from 6% of the GDP in the USA in 1953 to that of the UK in 2020" with a history of dictatorship, while the point of the article is exactly the - noted - "strangeness" of the results.

The above reply mentions some quality in products of Samsung while the article is explicitly about the difficulty of understanding why «Samsung, Hyundai or LG» became what they ended up to be.

(And the first half dozen posts seemed to try and throw an answer to the title, as if its closing question mark made it an open quiz.)

We need more clarity.

Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#73

Post by zozbot234 »

karpierz wrote: post #67
phpnode wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no reason to blame this on the foreigners installing corrupt politicians, corruption is far more frequently organic and homegrown. Corrupt people work to further their own goals, if that happens to be using their power to take on e.g. debt on unfavourable terms then so be it, but that's not because they're beholden to foreigners, it's because that is their best route to enriching themselves - they can…

They have their debts forgiven on the basis of adopting certain policies (free market reform) that allows corporations from wealthy countries to set up shop and extract raw materials from the counter while avoiding giving back to the country via taxes. The profits get booked in Singapore or the Bahamas, and the stock price keeps going up.

Free market reforms do not forbid taxes on natural resource extraction. The U.S. has plenty of such taxes, and they score very highly on measures of economic freedom.

Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#74

Post by jongjong »

realgeniushere wrote: post #23
jongjong wrote: post #12

Simple answer; people from rich countries will use flaws in the political structures of certain other countries to install corrupt politicians; these politicians are then going to work for the interests of their rich foreign patrons and against the interests of their own people (for kickbacks/self-enrichment). The corrupt politicians will do things like saddle their people with significant public debts (which will fo…

So I agree it has to do with bad governance. But you deflect all blame away from the people in those poorly governed country, instead blaming wealthy people in other countries. I’ll say though, the worst thing the West has done to the third world is insist on democracy. Peasants don’t know what they need government to do, and the political classes in those countries don’t have the maturity to steer them.

People in those poorly governed countries don't always have a choice. You could be living in such a country, see everything that's wrong with your political system and yet be punished for it nevertheless. There is a flawed assumption which infers that because the majority of people in a specific country are idiots, everyone who lives in that country should be punished... Imagine how hard life is for intelligent people in those countries who are ruled by corrupt fools, surrounded by gullible fools and utterly powerless to do anything about it. People can't choose the country they were born in so they should not be punished on that basis.

Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#75

Post by greenbit »

newyankee wrote: post #8

One reason is how much ever we try to disagree, the socio economic construct is still a zero sum game with an ever increasing pie. People who argue otherwise point to the size of the pie without practically ever stating what those in difficult positions can realistically do to get more of it. Other reasons are that honestly there is not much "real work" to be done so we can argue that a very small % of existing popul…

"The tiny elite (countries, billionares, intellectuals) ..”

Hold up. Intellectuals? How many 'intellectuals' own personal helicopters, mega-yachts, mansions? Or hey for that matter, even regular old homes?

Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#76

Post by onos »

1995moz wrote: post #47

You can make the whole world not poor (and quite a few people not as rich as they are). Solution is simple - allow free movement of goods, services AND people. Perhaps also follow-up with allowing anyone to buy any piece of land anywhere so that rich can also buy up cheaper land (fair deal?). A lot of reasons for conflict (and need to organize around nation states) will stop remaining so important. I guess, one can d…

I’m not against this a priori but I’d expect this to also generate new levels of inequality. As the rich get access to larger playing fields their wealth can grow that much more. Even if true, whether this is bad or not is probably subjective.

Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#77

Post by FormerBandmate »

jongjong wrote: post #12

Simple answer; people from rich countries will use flaws in the political structures of certain other countries to install corrupt politicians; these politicians are then going to work for the interests of their rich foreign patrons and against the interests of their own people (for kickbacks/self-enrichment). The corrupt politicians will do things like saddle their people with significant public debts (which will fo…

Why do you think South Korea managed to do better than its peers? That’s the entire subject of the article and you don’t seem to have covered it at all

Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#79

Post by FollowingTheDao »

Maybe "poverty" is a fake word that was created by people who wanted to sell you something.

https://newint.org/features/1992/06/05/poverty/

Think about it. Did people know there was such a think called "poverty" before some people started hoarding everything and not sharing it?

That's capitalism!

Maybe some people do not mind living in "poverty" and just because you cannot convince them to buy into your false dichotomy does not mea there is something wrong with them.

https://panafricanreview.rw/the-invention-of-african-poverty...

Re: Why Isn’t the Whole World Rich?

#80

Post by civilized »

jongjong wrote: post #12

Simple answer; people from rich countries will use flaws in the political structures of certain other countries to install corrupt politicians; these politicians are then going to work for the interests of their rich foreign patrons and against the interests of their own people (for kickbacks/self-enrichment). The corrupt politicians will do things like saddle their people with significant public debts (which will fo…

The question was "why isn't the whole world rich", not "what are some bad things rich countries have done to poor countries".

Are you confident that if rich countries hadn't done the bad debt/political things to the poor countries, they'd now be rich?

Why didn't this happen to countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc?

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