I just... don't understand how it's not immediately obvious this is a horrible idea. For every helpful use case you can imagine for something like this, there are a thousand times as many harmful ones.
CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
271–280 of 300 posts
Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have heard this about various games (Risk and Settlers of Catan mostly). I don’t get it. The point of these games is to be a bastard. If everyone goes into it with the understanding that there will be double crosses, how could there be hurt feelings? Monopoly is worse; it is just boring, I would dump my friends if they suggested monopoly not because I was hurt by their ruthless gameplay but for their terminally tas…
I would say Diplomacy specifically has features that make it cause hurt feelings almost intrinsically 1. It's a long game- after hours of play, getting doubled crossed unexpectedly sucks because of how much you have invested 2. The game almost purely relies on cooperation/other players. So double crossing someone really screws them- it almost certainly means I have no recource (luck, dice rolls, individual tactics).…
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Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#273Maybe we shouldn't be training computers how to lie better? If you've never played diplomacy - its a 7+ hour game that destroys friendships with backstabbing and betrayal as a required mechanic to win the game.
this version of the game is not 7 hours, it's blitz diplomacy that has only a couple minutes per turn, and a 2 hour time limit, making press significantly less complicated (gpt is not internally consistent enough for much more). Full of acronyms because you have to talk to several players in those few minutes you get
Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#274Possible I missed it, but I don’t see any reference to how they addresses chat thread continuity (aka memory) issues that are major issue for AI chat bots. Did they address this and if so, how?
mainly by limiting it to "blitz" diplomacy which is a very limited version of the actual game, with only a few mins per phase and iirc no press on build phases. Human players with this limitation rely on a lot of acronyms to save time (they have to talk to 6 other players in those 2 minutes!).
Still natural language so impressive but no way it would hold up in a 10 minute conversation
Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#275I strongly suspect it is winning by essentially being a psychopath
I'm not too familiar with the game CICERO. Is it the type of game in which adopting a "psychopath" mindset gives you tactical advantage over others?
CICERO is the AI, the game is called "Diplomacy". It's in fact the type of game where you win by convincing others that you aren't a psychopath. (If they believe you more than your opponent then you do well) - specifically, if you backstab/lie too often early on you will always lose, so you have to keep track of social capital and expend it when the time is right such that your enemy won't be alive to make you regret it later
Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#276For those hearing of this game for the first time and think it sounds fun. Be warned, it is considered to be a game that will end friendships that have lasted for years, and monopoly is considered to be a game that causes less bad feelings. An AI may be able to speak like a person but will never be able to hang onto that long burning simmering hatred from when Brad didn't support my army and instead flipped on me by…
And the most stressful way to play Diplomacy is “one turn per day.” You’ll obsess about it all evening long, then get up and immediately focus on it again!
Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://intelligence.org/2017/10/13/fire-alarm/
I don't think it's a question of incremental progress, with AGI behind some ghost line. I think the current progress is, despite all the excitement, actually orthogonal to true AGI development. We're developing ever more sophisticated narrow AI, not even taking baby steps to proper true AI. I believe that the progress to the latter would be evidenced by the development of artificial intelligence first with animal cap…
> We're developing ever more sophisticated narrow AI, not even taking baby steps to proper true AI.
I'm fairly certain you cannot rigourously define "proper true AI", and I'm also fairly certain you don't mechanistically understand how humans think. This raises the question: where does your confidence that our current path is not pretty close to "proper true AI" and/or how humans think come from?
Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#278You know, I feel privileged (in an epistemologically doubtful way) that I once lived in a world where I could have confidence that I wasn't being fundamentally deceived by literal dei ex machina. I've understood for the last decade that this faith was on borrowed time as we bridged closer to overt technophrenia, but it's harrowing to be a witness to it. I can't help but wonder at what point I will inhabit a world ind…
> I once lived in a world where I could have confidence that I wasn't being fundamentally deceived by literal dei ex machina. What difference does it make that it's a computer doing it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...
For any or all of the following reasons:
1. Because humans have an understood limit on intelligence.
2. Because we have systems in place to keep humans in check.
3. Because humans have a distinct physical location and thus stricter limits on their direct and indirect influence.
4. Because humans can't copy themselves.
Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#279The irony of naming this Cicero is not lost on this student.
A few more relevant details on Marcus Tullius Cicero: He was decapitated by Marc Antony's soldiers at age 63 for opposing the Second Triumvirate, sorta (that period of Roman history is very complicated). He was a noted orator and loved by the people, but loved his own speeches and voice more. His words fill all classical students with a mix of awe and dread for their complexity and length. The tricks and skills he invented in oratory are still used today. Any Obama speech is littered with the tropes Cicero is credited to have invented nearly 2000 years ago. That FB is claiming that Cicero was at any time a man that cared for the plebs and did not use them for his own gains is laughable. None of the Romans cared truly for the plebs, not even the plebeians themselves, I think. It's pronounced 'Ki-Ker-o', not 'Sis-er-o', by the by.
Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people
#280"We're open-sourcing our so that others in the community can build on top of this research responsibly"
The likelihood that AI enslaves or destroys the human race is small, but the risks are so great that we cannot ignore the possibility. We're teaching a computer to play a war game? To persuade humans to achieve its goal? Have we learned nothing from science fiction?