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Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

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Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#41

Post by black_puppydog »

lobochrome wrote: post #39
Obsnold wrote: post #9

Does the Japanese government pay for or in some way support articles like this? Do people in Japan get articles about how amazing coppicing is in the UK? Articles like this about Japan make me feel a bit weird but I kind of wish we were better at fetishising our own produce and practices like we do with the Japanese.

Solingen Kitchen Knifes are highly valued. Go into any department store, and you will find the finest selection of german knives. Of course - it is the other way around in Germany.

Huh? Solingen knives are quite popular here in Germany as well :P

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#42

Post by vanderZwan »

duped wrote: post #16

I wish there was a way to apply this technique to some of the rarer woods that have fantastic uses in production, like teak, rosewood, and grenadilla. If you're into hardwoods like musical instruments or fine furniture there's an appreciation you grow for the character of these woods. And a moral quandary with the sourcing of it. It seems impossible to find a sustainable method to source the material. A lot of what w…

I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible, but nobody has successfully tried. It would require a combination of expert knowledge, the kind of long-term thinking/investment that the market currently is set up against, plus a lot of money over a long period of time to be able to afford experimenting like that in the first place.

It will probably take state-sponsored forestry research to figure this out.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#43

Post by astrange »

Obsnold wrote: post #9

Does the Japanese government pay for or in some way support articles like this? Do people in Japan get articles about how amazing coppicing is in the UK? Articles like this about Japan make me feel a bit weird but I kind of wish we were better at fetishising our own produce and practices like we do with the Japanese.

> Do people in Japan get articles about how amazing coppicing is in the UK?

They might get confused since Copic is a popular brand of art marker there.

I had to check but apparently the name is because they're designed to work with copier machines, not from this. (https://copic.jp/en/about/history/)

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#44

Post by vanderZwan »

rob74 wrote: post #33
duped wrote: post #16

I wish there was a way to apply this technique to some of the rarer woods that have fantastic uses in production, like teak, rosewood, and grenadilla. If you're into hardwoods like musical instruments or fine furniture there's an appreciation you grow for the character of these woods. And a moral quandary with the sourcing of it. It seems impossible to find a sustainable method to source the material. A lot of what w…

This technique doesn't really offer a solution: as a rule, the harder and better quality the wood, the slower it grows, so the possibility to supply more when demand is high is limited, which makes the wood more expensive, so the temptation of "poaching" it is greater.

The cedar shoots in this article are claimed to be stronger and to grow quicker though

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#45

Post by fredestine »

Danieru wrote: post #36
dimator wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is a sense of extreme disappointment exhibited by some individuals when visiting Paris, who feel that the city was not what they had expected > The syndrome is characterized by a number of psychiatric symptoms such as acute delusional states, hallucinations, feelings of persecution ... derealization, depersonalization, anxiety, and also psychosomatic manifestations such as dizziness, tachycardia, sweating, and othe…

What you need to understand is how Paris is horrible in the exact ways Japanese cities are nice. Paris is dirt, aggressive, expensive, with horrible customer service. All things Japanese city has and would never think to include in a tourism pitch. Japanese Tourists expect Paris to be a Regular (Japanese) City + Romanticism. What they get has no romance, and a city even regular French people consider rude.

well its relative. for instance japanese parks are horrible. paris parks are a thing of beauty. the mayor is indeed contributing to make it a dirty agressive and expensive city by not fighting crime, mass tourism (she loves it. somehow she hates french people having cars but she is fine with rich tourists riding cabs in paris) and all the theft that is related to mass tourism... customer service is not at the level of japan but at least its not at the level of usa where everything is a transaction and every word is fake.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#46

Post by Danieru »

duped wrote: post #25
ggm wrote: post #20

Coppicing, Hedge laying, Bocage, drystone walling, wattle-and-daub are all domestic comparable ancient crafts of Europe. The point being that probably only drystone walling is valued in a way comparable to the Japanese version of Coppicing, which really has been transformed into an artform. European coppices are cut close to the rootstock and cut down far younger for use as poles, for wood turning, for hedge laying.…

Thanks for the googling for rabbit holes. The joinery in traditional Japanese construction is remarkably impressive in its craftsmanship. I've heard it was born from a combination of expensive and poor quality iron for nails (although the same could be said in European construction - hence the phrase, "dead as a door nail") and the desire to be able to relocate Shinto shrines without damage (which required joints tha…

More important: earthquakes.

Large ancient style Nails are a poor choice for a building which over the next 50 years is will experience a 100+ earthquakes. Joined wood is a mechanical connection which would require a house to be disassembled from the top down. The wood would sooner rip than come loose.

Edit: also joinery is not dead. Even modern Japanese houses have most of their connections a joinery. Then reinforced up with nails, cross braces (wood and now metal), and metal pins. Every dozen or so years Japan adds a new method for further earthquake proofing wooden homes.

Stuff built now is expected to survive a Shindo 7 earthquake. Japan has only had 8 Shindo 7s in the past 100 years.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#47

Post by thaumasiotes »

Jorengarenar wrote: post #7

>This is an ancient method, developed in the 14th century Isn't it interesting, how most of the history of East Asia just has label "ancient" slapped onto it in pop-culture?

>>This is an ancient method, developed in the 14th century

> Isn't it interesting, how most of the history of East Asia just has label "ancient" slapped onto it in pop-culture?

At least in China, they freely refer to that time period as being "ancient" (古). "Ancient" is probably any time up to the early 20th century.[1]

If you want to emphasize that something is really ancient, you can use 上古.

[1] I asked Baidu 什么时候算古代 ("what time counts as 'ancient'?"), and it turns out I was wrong. The answer is "before 1840".

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#48

Post by Lio »

Obsnold wrote: post #9

Does the Japanese government pay for or in some way support articles like this? Do people in Japan get articles about how amazing coppicing is in the UK? Articles like this about Japan make me feel a bit weird but I kind of wish we were better at fetishising our own produce and practices like we do with the Japanese.

I see a lot of programme's about Japanese trades and crafts on NHK and that's owned by the Japanese government, so I would guess the answer is yes.

I would also imagine our government, the UK, promote our culture via the BBC too. I believe it's called "soft power".

I'm OK with it. I actually seek out these sorts of programmes on both NHK and the BBC 'cause I like seeing master craftsmen at work. Anytime I see some guy in London making clocks by hand with a Cowells lathe or a bloke and his son working a hammer in an Osaka forge I'm happy.

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#49

Post by qwery »

Obsnold wrote: post #9

Does the Japanese government pay for or in some way support articles like this? Do people in Japan get articles about how amazing coppicing is in the UK? Articles like this about Japan make me feel a bit weird but I kind of wish we were better at fetishising our own produce and practices like we do with the Japanese.

I'm not sure which other "articles like this" you are referring to, but I don't think you need to be too worried.

Was this article was paid for by the Japanese government? I doubt it. The website appears to be that of a business that would like to sell you things, which seems a likely enough motive for them to post articles on just about anything.

You might be interested in Cool Japan[0], which is part of Japan's "overall brand strategy". This sort of national marketing is not unique to Japan, but their various campaigns are a noteworthy successful example.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Japan

Re: Japanese have been producing wood for 700 years without cutting down trees

#50

Post by thaumasiotes »

rob74 wrote: post #33
duped wrote: post #16

I wish there was a way to apply this technique to some of the rarer woods that have fantastic uses in production, like teak, rosewood, and grenadilla. If you're into hardwoods like musical instruments or fine furniture there's an appreciation you grow for the character of these woods. And a moral quandary with the sourcing of it. It seems impossible to find a sustainable method to source the material. A lot of what w…

This technique doesn't really offer a solution: as a rule, the harder and better quality the wood, the slower it grows, so the possibility to supply more when demand is high is limited, which makes the wood more expensive, so the temptation of "poaching" it is greater.

Trees don't move; it's perfectly possible to guard them from poachers.
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