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How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

practical.engineering

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Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#51

Post by gjsman-1000 »

quacked wrote: post #45
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family jokes that, while everyone stocks up on “survival” products… cigarettes and alcohol will probably be in high demand. Got video games, maybe some solar power (just enough for a TV and a Switch)? Parents will want those to keep the kids sane. Got Blu-rays, DVDs? When people can’t stream, you might get some good resources for them. Got a PC with some offline CAD software? Makes planning making things out of wo…

That's a smart idea. Cigarettes, condoms, porn, gum, the sorts of things you bribe third-world soldiers with (often people with experience living without power for a long time.) Edit: I saw you added CAD software; I actually think that people would go back to just drawing things on paper before they'd go to "solar rig to PC with CAD software on it". Civilization did run just fine without computers up until they crash…

Yeah… I don’t know how many CAD users there would be in the apocalypse. I’m just listing some everyday things we already have that are pseudo-prepper to do… ;)

EDIT: I just realized, how many people will have blank paper in the apocalypse? How many people print anymore? Man this rabbit hole never ends… For heavens sake though, digital media is so anti-resilient that it’s just crazy…

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#52

Post by mastazi »

tevon wrote: post #4

I'd be curious if it would be better to be in the city or the country. My hunch is that the city requires more "inputs" to stay survivable (fewer food/water stockpiles available), dependant on inputs. However cities would also be the focus for recovery efforts and disaster relief. On the flip side, the country has a greater store of natural resources per-capita (water, likely food, heat sources), however would be dep…

You can look at history. I am Italian, we had a lot of internal wars and lawlessness in the Middle Ages. Most Italian villages had defence walls. People usually did not live out in the farmland, they only went there during the day to work, then came back within walls in the evening.

The current city/suburbs/farmland concept will stop working in the event of societal collapse.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#53

Post by fallingknife »

wmf wrote: post #8
marstall wrote: post #2

scary. presume FEMA would significantly mitigate things in a Texas-wide outage ... but something much wider ... yikes

FEMA would take a week or longer to even wake up and they don't have the resources to help Texas. Source: Katrina.

Katrina is a meaningless comparison because the city was underwater. Logistics runs on trucks. No roads, no trucks.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#55

Post by cassonmars »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #38
acidburnNSA wrote: post #17

A lot of old Cold War preparatory war game scenarios start with EMPs blanketing the continental US. It only takes a few (like 1) nuclear weapon detonations in thin atmosphere (a few dozen km up) where the primary heat transfer mechanism is radiative (vs. convective, conductive) to cause enough EMP to take out pretty much the entire continental US grid. The military is fully hardened against EMP. Civilian infrastructu…

We want civilian EMP hardening not just for a nuclear war, but also for an unexpected solar event. We want to be able to handle whatever nature throws at us, our fellow apes combined. I just rounded off my most recent expansion to 120kw peak production with 500kwh storage, all EMP hardened to well above carrington event levels. Most of you have a house full of IoT crap dependent on AWS (region) to function.

Is there a guide you followed or have for how to do this kind of hardening? I’ve wanted to do this for a while, don’t know where to start.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#56

Post by dbish »

cpsns wrote: post #36

> Critical facilities like cellular base stations and data-centers often have an on-site backup generator. These generators have enough fuel to extend the resiliency beyond 24 to 48 hours. During the 2019 hurricane here in Nova Scotia people stole the fuel (and even a few generators somehow), so don’t even count on that. We had no internet, cellular, or landline service for days where I live as a result, much less po…

Heard the same thing happening during some long post-hurricane power outages in the USVI where my family lives. Generator stolen from the main cell tower for a chunk of the island, very selfish and expected now.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#57

Post by px43 »

johng wrote: post #23

I am reminded of an excellent Twilight Zone episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPOoEQ2vx7w

That episode is less about unreliable power grids, and more about how easy it is to tear apart society by turning neighbors against each other over relatively minor things. Something that we've seen on a whole new level since 2015.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#58

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

groffee wrote: post #6

I think everyone should turn off their power for a couple of hours (when convenient) just to see if and how well they'd manage. Because it's so easy to become reliant on something without realizing that it could go. Powers gone off? Guess I'll put the kettle on and make some tea while I wait - no power. It's got a bit dark - put the light on. Listen to spotify? No songs downloaded and no data etc etc. And that's not…

Going without power isn't nearly as bad as going without water. Shut off water for 24 hours and you'll quickly realize just how often you take it for granted.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#59

Post by oconnore »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #38
acidburnNSA wrote: post #17

A lot of old Cold War preparatory war game scenarios start with EMPs blanketing the continental US. It only takes a few (like 1) nuclear weapon detonations in thin atmosphere (a few dozen km up) where the primary heat transfer mechanism is radiative (vs. convective, conductive) to cause enough EMP to take out pretty much the entire continental US grid. The military is fully hardened against EMP. Civilian infrastructu…

We want civilian EMP hardening not just for a nuclear war, but also for an unexpected solar event. We want to be able to handle whatever nature throws at us, our fellow apes combined. I just rounded off my most recent expansion to 120kw peak production with 500kwh storage, all EMP hardened to well above carrington event levels. Most of you have a house full of IoT crap dependent on AWS (region) to function.

What are you using to store ~37 Tesla Powerwalls worth of energy? How is it EMP hardened?

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#60

Post by lettergram »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #42
quacked wrote: post #39

This is one of those situations where there are no backups, and no one has any plans to make any backups. A power outage disaster-hardened country has a populace that's deeply knowledgeable about self-governance, organized combat, agriculture, medicine, sanitation, power generation, engineering, textiles, supply logistics, and construction. If the citizens of a western country like the US somehow earned the free time…

My family jokes that, while everyone stocks up on “survival” products… cigarettes and alcohol will probably be in high demand. Got video games, maybe some solar power (just enough for a TV and a Switch)? Parents will want those to keep the kids sane. Got Blu-rays, DVDs? When people can’t stream, you might get some good resources for them. Got a PC with some offline CAD software? Makes planning making things out of wo…

My favorite is people who think gold and silver will matter. Nope.

Ammo, instant coffee, antibiotics. Cheap now, can keep for years, light weight and useful to everyone.

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