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AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

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Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#81

Post by remarkEon »

mc32 wrote: post #74
remarkEon wrote: post #13

>I can’t imagine a US intelligence official would be wrong on this Has this AP reporter been asleep for … their entire career? Charitably, I can interpret this as the reporter thinking they wouldn’t make up something about a potential Article 5 event, but - and maybe it’s my cynicism about this war - wouldn’t that mean you’d want to guarantee that what you’re saying is super precise? “Russian missiles hit Poland” vs…

Who say things like “American missiles fired by Ukraine?” It would only make sense to say that if US troops on the ground hosted by Ukraine fired the missiles. It’s stupid. No one says Chinese AK-47s fired by Ukrainian soldiers. Someone was playing stupid.

Are you saying that LaPorta, a Marine so he’s probably more likely to be familiar with these weapons systems than other non-military veteran journos, is playing stupid in the thread about the manufacturing origins of those missiles?

The origin, both manufacturing and who fired them, seems pretty relevant in this war because both sides are using a lot of the same weapons systems.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#82

Post by MattDemers »

IncRnd wrote: post #22

The people in that Slack thread, except for the reporter James LaPorta, exhibited an incredible amount of willful ignorance that bordered on stupidity. The original statement was vague and did not name a source. It held the pretense of a source by saying an unnamed senior American intelligence official was in some capacity vetted by Ron Nixon. It's not clear whether the person was vetted as an official, if his words…

> Either that or pay for them to attend remedial journalism school.

You're assuming that journalism school is teaching things that are preventing this from happening.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#83

Post by askl56 »

ncallaway wrote: post #38
ilyt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, the exact information he passed along was factually correct by one interpretation. The S-300 rockets were "Russian" in the sense that they were Russian manufacturing. They were not "Russian" in the sense that they were fired by Russian armed forces (to the best of our knowledge). That's a fucking terrible interpretation. By that interpretation both sides of war in ukraine are russian coz UA happened to use…

> By that interpretation both sides of war in ukraine are russian Well, no, I made a pretty clear distinction about what context we were using "Russian" to refer to. By that interpretation both sides of the war in Ukraine use Russian manufactured weapons. Which isn't a crazy thing to suggest, since it's manifestly true. It seems very likely to me that the journalist meant "Russian-fired rocket". But is that what thei…

So if a Boeing plane is shot down in Iran, it would make sense to say "Iranians shoot down American plane"? During the Iran/Iraq war would have made sense to say "American missiles hit American planes in Iraq"?

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#84

Post by mc32 »

remarkEon wrote: post #81
mc32 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who say things like “American missiles fired by Ukraine?” It would only make sense to say that if US troops on the ground hosted by Ukraine fired the missiles. It’s stupid. No one says Chinese AK-47s fired by Ukrainian soldiers. Someone was playing stupid.

Are you saying that LaPorta, a Marine so he’s probably more likely to be familiar with these weapons systems than other non-military veteran journos, is playing stupid in the thread about the manufacturing origins of those missiles? The origin, both manufacturing and who fired them, seems pretty relevant in this war because both sides are using a lot of the same weapons systems.

It’s way more relevant WHO fired them from where than who manufactured them.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#85

Post by HillRat »

IncRnd wrote: post #22

The people in that Slack thread, except for the reporter James LaPorta, exhibited an incredible amount of willful ignorance that bordered on stupidity. The original statement was vague and did not name a source. It held the pretense of a source by saying an unnamed senior American intelligence official was in some capacity vetted by Ron Nixon. It's not clear whether the person was vetted as an official, if his words…

LaPorta's a fine reporter who absolutely doesn't deserve to be scapegoated for what was primarily an editorial error in judgment (also, Nixon's an excellent national security reporter with deep sources).

The initial few hours after the explosion were chaotic; Poland did hold a national security committee (BBN) meeting and talked about triggering an Article 4 consultation, both of which were consonant with a belief that the missile was a Russian offensive missile that went awry. It's very possible, indeed likely, that a national security source, possibly within NATO/ACO/SHAPE, jumped the gun (so to speak) based on Polish sources; what we do know is that as ISR data came in, the USG itself (including Biden and SecDef) was officially reticent to affix blame until they were able to pinpoint the explosion as coming from Ukraine air defense.

As you say, there was a failure in the editorial process -- LaPorta passed along a tip from a source, Karam made the call to go with the story based entirely on that source. For the AP to go after a journo who didn't even write the story, and then say that they don't intend to even dig into the editorial failures, is unconscionable.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#86

Post by mandevil »

pessimizer wrote: post #58
ncallaway wrote: post #3

Frankly, this seems like an editorial mistake not a journalists mistake. Unless he completely made up the information he received, or lied about the attribution in the internal slack chat, he should not have been fired for this. This was an editorial error. In fact, the exact information he passed along was factually correct by one interpretation. The S-300 rockets were "Russian" in the sense that they were Russian m…

Can anybody knowledgeable tell me why Ukraine would have old-ass Soviet missiles left? I would naïvely assume that old munitions would be long gone (aren't we like 8 months in?) and replaced with shiny US stuff.

While there are simple US weapons that have been provided (things like TOW missiles, M777 howitzers, etc.) and a small handful of complex ones (the famous HIMARS) many of the weapons provided have actually been of Soviet manufacture- since the Ukrainians already know how to take care of and use them, it is easier to give them Polish MiG-29's that the Ukrainian Air Force already can operate than to spend months training everyone on how to take care of a F-16. (Though in the end, I don't believe the Poles ended up giving any MiGs to the UAF, that was the central topic of negotiations for some time.)

The current signals (UKR having low artillery stocks and US and other NATO countries inability to provide more, with Russians stocks also apparently low) have reminded me of 1915 in the First Big Mistake, when everyone had used up their prewar stocks of artillery shells, and waited to bring the factories online to make vastly more of them- the build-up to the mega-deaths at Verdun and the Somme. Hopefully we won't see that level of death in this war.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#87

Post by pessimizer »

bandyaboot wrote: post #71
pessimizer wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anybody knowledgeable tell me why Ukraine would have old-ass Soviet missiles left? I would naïvely assume that old munitions would be long gone (aren't we like 8 months in?) and replaced with shiny US stuff.

The location might be a factor. Munitions that have been stockpiled in the western part of the country are likely not being expended at nearly the rate that they are in other parts.

This didn't occur to me at all. Makes a lot of sense.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#88

Post by nonethewiser »

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #52

> LaPorta did not exactly claim that Nixon had approved the source in this case, but his words were interpreted by the editors to mean that he did. I think that's a reasonable read. That's what I took away from it initially. He said an official source, which had been vetted, said a thing. The fact that he didn't make it clear that this source had not been vetted for this particular report is negligent at best.

But he was vetted. It's this report that wasnt vetted. If Nixon's judgement was critical for this report then why didnt they confirm with Nixon?

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#89

Post by pessimizer »

askl56 wrote: post #83
ncallaway wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By that interpretation both sides of war in ukraine are russian Well, no, I made a pretty clear distinction about what context we were using "Russian" to refer to. By that interpretation both sides of the war in Ukraine use Russian manufactured weapons. Which isn't a crazy thing to suggest, since it's manifestly true. It seems very likely to me that the journalist meant "Russian-fired rocket". But is that what thei…

So if a Boeing plane is shot down in Iran, it would make sense to say "Iranians shoot down American plane"? During the Iran/Iraq war would have made sense to say "American missiles hit American planes in Iraq"?

> it would make sense to say "Iranians shoot down American plane"?

If you had no idea who the plane belonged to, it wouldn't be very strange to say that it was an American-manufactured plane.

Re: AP fired reporter after dangerous blunder – Slack chats reveal chaotic process

#90

Post by giraffe_lady »

mc32 wrote: post #79
ncallaway wrote: post #3

Frankly, this seems like an editorial mistake not a journalists mistake. Unless he completely made up the information he received, or lied about the attribution in the internal slack chat, he should not have been fired for this. This was an editorial error. In fact, the exact information he passed along was factually correct by one interpretation. The S-300 rockets were "Russian" in the sense that they were Russian m…

Do people often say when reporting on wars: Chinese AK-47s killed 20 civilians in Afghanistan, or do they say 10 Isis fighters fired AK-47s killing twenty civilians in Kabul? Oh, Twenty American guided missiles killed Houthi fighters —but but they were fired by Saudi Arabian forces from Saudi Arabia. Or French Exocet missiles killed blah blah blah in blah blah blah (without further context?) You want to know who in h…

Now that you mention it though this should be stated every time. Certainly not instead of, but in addition yes.
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