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Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

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Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#81

Post by maxbond »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #76
maxbond wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33713513 ) > Seriously, factories have been working for centuries and nothing has gone wrong, so why should we regulate where they can pour their waste or make them pay for environmental nonsense like carbon capture? Pardon? Factories have caused all sorts of problems with discharge, intentional or unintentional. Here's some from the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

Presumably, in that "Seriously, ..." quote, rather than asking an earnest question, the HNer was roleplaying their idea of the general population that's resistant to "reduce pollution" messaging.

Maybe. I've reread the comment and it can be read either way. Worst case scenario is that my comment remains correct but tone deaf, so I'm not going to retract it, but am open to a correction if GGP chooses to offer one.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#82

Post by bobkazamakis »

Syonyk wrote: post #44
borissk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

In other words, you've not talked to many (any?) Trump supporters, and are just speculating about what evilly evil things they might evilly support for their own evil ends. Or something of the sort. The conservative end of the spectrum is generally more concerned with things like "a stable power grid with enough power at all times " than carbon emissions, though I know quite a few pretty hard conservatives with solar…

[flagged]

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#83

Post by ch4s3 »

mullingitover wrote: post #34
dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

> It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations I don't think anyone in the US is pro-pollution. There are people who are against whatever the people they don't like are for , so if one side is for regulations controlling pollution, then by gosh they're against it. At one point in the early to mid-1900s most of the working class was united politically in one party aga…

> At one point in the early to mid-1900s most of the working class was united politically

Working class white people were in the Democratic Party… mostly. This was because of the New Deal which was very pro white labor, and also pushed women, children, blacks, and immigrants out of the labor market.

The parties were slowly realigning after the new deal until the civil rights act finally cemented the realignment.

Reading the annual party platforms from about 1910 to roughly 1964 is fascinating.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#84

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

mullingitover wrote: post #34
dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

> It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations I don't think anyone in the US is pro-pollution. There are people who are against whatever the people they don't like are for , so if one side is for regulations controlling pollution, then by gosh they're against it. At one point in the early to mid-1900s most of the working class was united politically in one party aga…

What?

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#85

Post by vkou »

rayiner wrote: post #66
dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

> It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations By and large, they don’t. Trump’s efforts, for example, were focused on repealing incremental efforts during the Obama administration that hadn’t been in effect for long, and risked disproportionate impact on coal, oil, cars, and farms. Very few people think we should get rid of rules that require factories to use emissi…

As of this decade, we need disproportionate impact on coal, oil, and cars to have any chance to get to net-zero emissions. A country completely built around single-passenger ICE vehicles and burning coal for electricity is what's disproportionate, not the response to them.

We wasted a decade in the 00s, we've mostly wasted a decade in the 10s, and we're starting off by wasting a decade in the 20s. You can keep ignoring late notices on your bills, but sooner or later, they do come due...

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#86

Post by npc12345 »

elmalto wrote: post #65
ripley12 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh. The Agricultural Land Reserve really isn't the problem in Vancouver. Cities already have a ton of land where they can+should be allowing more housing but aren't (ex: the vast majority of residential land in Vancouver bans townhouses+apartments+condos). With the exception of maybe some parts of Richmond, I don't think there's much a case that the ALR is the problem here.

Agree. Just drive down main once and look at all the 2 story buildings… not even talking about the neighborhoods that are primarily detached. Vancouver is so expensive yet nobody is allowed to create denser housing. Nimbyism at its finest

No post body was provided.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#87

Post by rgmerk »

WalterBright wrote: post #68
anigbrowl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if they tax it, people will complain about cost-shifting, saying the consumer should pay, and accuse the taxes for driving inflation etc. I am in favor of making polluters account for negative externalities, it's been a long-theme of my comments here), but I've noticed that people are adept at inventing new bases of objection. Perhaps you could suggest a place where the pollution taxation approach has worked and…

Cost incentives work. It's why people buy cars that get more mpg. Why wouldn't they prefer to buy a car that engenders a lower pollution tax?

If by “people” you mean “Americans”, they buy F-150s to go to the grocery store, and they vote out governments that threaten their ability to do so.

Taxing pollution, particularly consumer-facing taxes, has a long history of political failure, whereas subsidising clean technology has a long history of political and technical success.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#88

Post by rayiner »

vkou wrote: post #85
rayiner wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations By and large, they don’t. Trump’s efforts, for example, were focused on repealing incremental efforts during the Obama administration that hadn’t been in effect for long, and risked disproportionate impact on coal, oil, cars, and farms. Very few people think we should get rid of rules that require factories to use emissi…

As of this decade, we need disproportionate impact on coal, oil, and cars to have any chance to get to net-zero emissions. A country completely built around single-passenger ICE vehicles and burning coal for electricity is what's disproportionate, not the response to them. We wasted a decade in the 00s, we've mostly wasted a decade in the 10s, and we're starting off by wasting a decade in the 20s. You can keep ignori…

Maybe, but my point is that the battleground on “EPA regulations” isn’t the stuff we have had in place for decades that makes our air cleaner than in New Delhi. Installing pollution control devices on emissions stacks doesn’t affect ordinary people. Getting rid of well paying jobs for non-college educated people in coal and oil & gas, or requiring them to live like Europeans in little houses driving little cars does affect ordinary people. That’s obviously going to provoke a different response.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#89

Post by njarboe »

twojacobtwo wrote: post #21
njarboe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other would say, "The EPA has been so successful, to keep their budget growing, they have become overzealous."

Are you able to provide an example that would support the claims of these others?

I don't hold a strong opinion myself on the matter as I have not done any deep research, but the EPA enforces the Endangered Species Act and the Wetlands Protection and Restoration. Google either of these with the phrase "Abuse of " at the beginning and you will find many people and organization writing about it. I have read many of these type of articles in different types of publications. One example[1].

I also know a lawyer at the EPA and she tells stories about how, for example, she/EPA is suing 80-90 year old people that owned car washes in LA in the 60's and 70's and had contaminated the soil. I figured that is what Superfund funds were for but I guess those funds are just to clean up corporations that have disappeared, not individuals that owned a small business 50 years ago and can be tracked.

[1]http://publiclandscouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/End...

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#90

Post by warmwaffles »

bsder wrote: post #71
warmwaffles wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other problem is, the EPA isn't also all sunshine and rainbows https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-sp...

Blaming the EPA for an incident that happened at a horribly toxic mine is like blaming your doctor for your gall bladder exploding while it was being removed for being infectious. The EPA is in charge of these horrible mines because the previous owners abandoned them to destroy the environment after the profitable stuff was pulled out of the ground.

Cool, so absolve the EPA of any wrong doing?
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