Quite honestly, programming doesn't sound like a good fit. Have you tried doing something physical? Like post office delivery or something.
Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
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Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#22My suggestions will be unpopular and controversial, but I have been in your shoes, and medication has saved my life. Make it your goal.
If you can't get medicated, I would suggest copious amount of caffeine and nicotine, especially the latter. Perhaps don't get into cigarettes, patches are great if you understand that they take hours to reach peak nicotine concentration. Vaping is still 10x better than an unmedicated, unassisted life. Get some exercise in for that 15% boost in executive function, and it's great for your health anyway. Good luck starting an exercise routine unmedicated though.
If one day society decides I cannot take the meds that keep me ticking along, that is my plan. I'd rather die 10 years earlier because of nicotine side-effects than go back into the hole of self loathing and mental impotence I just managed to crawl out of.
Stay away from any dopamine binge. You are probably already binging on something. Drugs, porn, mindless YouTubing, food, sugar, sex, the Internet, video games are your best pleasure and your worst enemy. You crave that rush, you will seek it anywhere, it will make your ADHD worse and worse.
It's not going to be easy, but don't give much weight to "normal" people trying to convince you you're just one small trick away from a happy life. They don't know what the hell they're talking about. You have a mental imbalance, and unless you can afford not to work like a hamster 40h a week to get a salary, you need help to fix the imbalance.
And in any case if you are like me you will never be a cubicle monkey. Freelance. Work you own hours. Work for yourself if you can. It is possible to get to a point that your 0.2x productivity, if you're good, still keeps a roof over your head.
Hit me up, email in my profile, if you wanna vent. I have lived in your shoes for a very long time.
Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#23Quite honestly, programming doesn't sound like a good fit. Have you tried doing something physical? Like post office delivery or something.
These jobs don't pay enough to afford housing and food around here... It's done by older people who got their real estate when it was still cheap 10-20 (or more) years ago. Younger people have absolutely no chance of making enough to get by from this job. There's also huge competition on these jobs - older people who want to supplement their pension income, etc. I'm not averse to physical work (I like working on my grandma's garden, for example) but I'm afraid it just won't be enough money and that I'll have the same kind of problems... It's not just mental work I have problems with. In my downperiods I am unable to clean my teeth.
Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#24My reply to the user andrewmcarter who deleted their comment: I thought I am an extremely lazy person who hates to work for 25 years. That it's ADHD was suggested to me a year ago and it was confirmed on EEG scans, by psychological evaluation and by taking medication that actually worked - however it also made me paranoid (extremely, pushing me out of normal reality) and I have other (physical) medical condition that…
Sorry, I didn't think you'd see my comment.
It sounds to me like you're asking too much of yourself. Since failing isn't an option, anything less than succeeding at what you do next will make you unhappy.
I hope that I can remind you that it's OK and normal for people to just not be able to focus for periods of time. That's the human condition.
Go easy on yourself and take it one step at a time. But remember too, all the world over, the majority of people are working individuals. We all have to labor. No one wants to work with someone not working for extended periods of time. You have to try. Just do it slowly and consider pairing with someone; it's OK.
I wish you the best.
Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately coffee even in small doses makes me paranoid and anxious so much I become absolute clusterfuck (literally start believing aliens are coming). Same with marihuana. This is part of the reason why I can't get medication - Ritalin does this to me too.
Have you tried non-stimulant ADHD medications? Wellbutrin works well for people who have blood pressure issues for example (it can affect blood pressure, but it's much less common than with stimulants)
Unfortunately I can't just choose what medication I'd like to try. The doctor had me try Ritalin and that worked great (on the focus/attention side) but I also developed pretty extreme paranoia after cca month and since then he doesn't want me to try anything else. I tried switching psychiatrist but so far I'm on several wait lists (have been for 5 months now).
Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#26My reply to the user andrewmcarter who deleted their comment: I thought I am an extremely lazy person who hates to work for 25 years. That it's ADHD was suggested to me a year ago and it was confirmed on EEG scans, by psychological evaluation and by taking medication that actually worked - however it also made me paranoid (extremely, pushing me out of normal reality) and I have other (physical) medical condition that…
Sorry, I didn't think you'd see my comment. It sounds to me like you're asking too much of yourself. Since failing isn't an option, anything less than succeeding at what you do next will make you unhappy. I hope that I can remind you that it's OK and normal for people to just not be able to focus for periods of time. That's the human condition. Go easy on yourself and take it one step at a time. But remember too, all…
[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you tried non-stimulant ADHD medications? Wellbutrin works well for people who have blood pressure issues for example (it can affect blood pressure, but it's much less common than with stimulants)
Unfortunately I can't just choose what medication I'd like to try. The doctor had me try Ritalin and that worked great (on the focus/attention side) but I also developed pretty extreme paranoia after cca month and since then he doesn't want me to try anything else. I tried switching psychiatrist but so far I'm on several wait lists (have been for 5 months now).
A natural way to reduce paranoia is to increase GABA and GABA building blocks in your diet. Almonds are a great example, and I take lots of supplements to also help w/ Gaba quantity (my Gaba receptors aren't peak functional). I've had times I've tapped out my Gaba reserves (internally) and paranoia would flourish.
It might allow you to try Ritalin again (albeit in smaller doses).
Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately I can't just choose what medication I'd like to try. The doctor had me try Ritalin and that worked great (on the focus/attention side) but I also developed pretty extreme paranoia after cca month and since then he doesn't want me to try anything else. I tried switching psychiatrist but so far I'm on several wait lists (have been for 5 months now).
A natural way to reduce paranoia is to increase GABA and GABA building blocks in your diet. Almonds are a great example, and I take lots of supplements to also help w/ Gaba quantity (my Gaba receptors aren't peak functional). I've had times I've tapped out my Gaba reserves (internally) and paranoia would flourish. It might allow you to try Ritalin again (albeit in smaller doses).
Could you share which supplements?
Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#29I had a relatively minor case that sounds very similar to this for a couple years. This is what worked for me, in case it works for you:
1) Reframe sunk-cost thinking on "not working" vs "working" by forgiving yourself on bad days. I would get into a state where I wasn't as productive as I could have been, and it made me feel bad when trying to be productive again. I would avoid engaging because of the emotionally painful feeling. Stimulants would allow me to push through, but at the cost of anxiety when coming down and other health issues. A lot of the framing and advice I got from friends and professionals ignored this highly emotional angle that I was not socialized to recognize and focused on either drugs or productivity tools to paper over it. However, recognizing that this was an emotional trap happening, and that the anticipated emotional pain was a self fulfilling prophecy, allowed me to forgive myself some days and focus on making small incremental progress. It is okay, normal, and probably unavoidable to have 0.5x or 0.1x days. The trick for me has been to not let them snowball by framing incremental progress as a win. Avoiding black and white thinking about productivity.
2) When that fails, as it will occasionally, try to harness the urge to disengage with emotionally risky tasks to do tasks you are less anxious about. Have a queue of productive but less stressful or exhausting tasks to do. Maybe you can get up from the computer and procrastinate by doing the dishes or cleaning. Maybe you can procrastinate cleaning by scheduling a doctor's appointment, doing taxes, or working out. Maybe you can procrastinate working out by writing unit tests and documentation. Eventually procrastinating the unit tests and documentation by writing features and closing the original tickets. This won't work for many jobs that do not provide autonomy, but has worked wonders for me. Part of what I think is happening here is that there can be a decoupiling between feeling rewarded and completing tasks, if tasks take too long to complete or are only followed by more of the same. Something akin to a low grade burnout can be stopped before it gets too serious by doing small immediately rewarding tasks when the urge to procrastinate is high.
3) Think of your productivity as part of a whole healthy emotional and physical life. Modern life makes it easy to ask absurd things of our animal body - we feed ourselves nothing but sugar, meds, coffee and nicotine designed to induce a flight or fight response for hours, then wonder why we are panicking at the thought of not finishing some minor task or the possibility of some bad behavior repeating. Shipping excellent code is a long voyage, one of many voyages in your life, and your mind is the irreplaceable vehicle that has to be kept in working order to complete all of them. Regular meals, sleep, and a little exercise, are not distractions from productivity but hard requirements for sustained productivity.
Re: Ask HN: Experienced software engineer – but unable to consistently work
#30ADHD software engineer from Prague here.
Here are some things I do to be reliably productive. To be clear, I don't do everything written below everyday (except limiting phonetime). They are tools to stop the downward spiral. Pick what works for you.
- Get StayFree app to limit your fun unproductive screentime. Getting bored is good for you. - Generally limit things that gives you easy dopamine. It messes with your reward system. - Clean up your home. - Get a cheap A4 notebook. Write down stuff you need to do into bubbles all around the page to get them out of your head. Break down complex tasks into simple short defined actions. Connect the bubbles according to the order you want to complete them. Don't overcommit. It should be easy to follow. - Sport helps - Sleep and eat well - Monday is the day when I'm the most productive. It's crucial to get rested during the weekend. - Drink enough water - Frontend development is less stressful than backend - Try Headspace app
My medication: Elontril, Concerta
Don't give up, keep fighting