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CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

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Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#151

Post by foobiekr »

kneebonian wrote: post #5

For those hearing of this game for the first time and think it sounds fun. Be warned, it is considered to be a game that will end friendships that have lasted for years, and monopoly is considered to be a game that causes less bad feelings. An AI may be able to speak like a person but will never be able to hang onto that long burning simmering hatred from when Brad didn't support my army and instead flipped on me by…

Diplomacy has nothing on the screaming matches I’ve seen and experienced with Chinatown. And you can get there in a fraction of the time required for Diplomacy

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#152

Post by educaysean »

jonplackett wrote: post #147

I strongly suspect it is winning by essentially being a psychopath

I'm not too familiar with the game CICERO. Is it the type of game in which adopting a "psychopath" mindset gives you tactical advantage over others?

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#153

Post by charcircuit »

bo1024 wrote: post #102
pesenti wrote: post #20

Paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ade9097 Code: https://github.com/facebookresearch/diplomacy_cicero Site: https://ai.facebook.com/research/cicero/ Expert player vs. Cicero AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5192bvUS7k RFP: https://ai.facebook.com/research/request-for-proposal/toward... The most interesting anecdote I heard from the team: "during the tournament dozens of human players never even su…

Hmm, I guess facebook doesn't have to go through IRB for human subject experiments, nor does Science require it, apparently.

IRB is for the government.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#154

Post by yamtaddle »

SamPatt wrote: post #144
yamtaddle wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, people bringing in outside-the-game relationships to the game itself will ruin Diplomacy. "Tom and Jim never betray each other, and if one is in a position to sacrifice themselves to give the other the win, they always will" is how you get a group to never ever let Diplomacy hit the table after the first couple times. Plus a bunch of other games. Folks who play like that are game-group poison. Hell, they can eve…

I feel the same about people who favor their romantic partners. Maybe when they're new to the game or a new relationship, go a little easy. Ok. But any longer and that's lame.

Yeah, I considered putting it in my post but ultimately cut it, but it is indeed often romantic couples who have this problem. Not always, but often it's couples. I think good-natured competition is typically a part of an ordinary friendship, even a very close one (Impro's take on status-games, and friendship being largely defined as a relationship in which you can play such games safely and without "real" stakes, probably factors into this) is probably why this happens less often with friends. Though, certain friend pairs, if you get them together in a group of people they don't know, they'll do this too.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#155

Post by whartung »

bee_rider wrote: post #9
kneebonian wrote: post #5

For those hearing of this game for the first time and think it sounds fun. Be warned, it is considered to be a game that will end friendships that have lasted for years, and monopoly is considered to be a game that causes less bad feelings. An AI may be able to speak like a person but will never be able to hang onto that long burning simmering hatred from when Brad didn't support my army and instead flipped on me by…

I have heard this about various games (Risk and Settlers of Catan mostly). I don’t get it. The point of these games is to be a bastard. If everyone goes into it with the understanding that there will be double crosses, how could there be hurt feelings? Monopoly is worse; it is just boring, I would dump my friends if they suggested monopoly not because I was hurt by their ruthless gameplay but for their terminally tas…

Yea, it's one thing to drop a SORRY card on your wife. It's another to lie to her for 2 solid hours and then stab her in the back in the end, expected or not.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#156

Post by charcircuit »

chaosbolt wrote: post #141
gcanyon wrote: post #87

It seems like with this, Meta is doubling down on the Facebook platform's use as a dark influencer in politics. It's bad for humanity to enable advanced profiling and general targeting of demographics, but it's a whole other level if the communication itself can be targeted at the individual level. We're headed for a reality where I don't know if my friends' friends are real or not, and they each entice me with argum…

>Not to sound alarmist, but this is beyond Manhattan Project-levels of "maybe this won't turn out well for us." Yep, but I feel like we're past the event horizon and all we can do for now is enjoy the spaghettification. It already feels like the internet isn't real anymore, Google has become unusable for real search except to find user reviews on reddit or other consumer things, it says it has a billion results but s…

>says it has a billion results but stops at page 40

Ranking sites is expensive. You should refine your query to narrow down the possible candidates instead of going through more pages.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#157

Post by permalac »

whartung wrote: post #155
bee_rider wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard this about various games (Risk and Settlers of Catan mostly). I don’t get it. The point of these games is to be a bastard. If everyone goes into it with the understanding that there will be double crosses, how could there be hurt feelings? Monopoly is worse; it is just boring, I would dump my friends if they suggested monopoly not because I was hurt by their ruthless gameplay but for their terminally tas…

Yea, it's one thing to drop a SORRY card on your wife. It's another to lie to her for 2 solid hours and then stab her in the back in the end, expected or not.

I'm with bee_rider, the point of the games is what you just said, so why so surprised?

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#158

Post by svnt »

wolverine876 wrote: post #79
bpodgursky wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, "largely" honest, until the critical moment when you stab to take 18 supply centers to win the game. You don't win Diplomacy by staying honest, you win by choosing the right moment to make the move and burn that trust. It's the 5% dishonesty that matters.

It's interesting and I think significant that people are uncomfortable with positive values, such as honesty, doing good for others, responsibility to others, right (not wrong), etc. We shoot them down, similar to how people instinctively cut off a conversation going in an uncomfortable direction, often without even realizing it. I can't attribute that the parent - I don't know the individual - but I expected a choru…

I think what you’ve identified is a societal immune response to predictable morality being systematically exploited by amoral actors to gain wealth and standing.

I also think there is a big gap between what most people advise and what they ultimately do that biases toward the right thing. That is, people indicate they will not be moral in order to dissuade others who might try to exploit it, but in the end they generally behave morally.

Personally I will advise other people to be cautious while repeatedly leaving myself open to being taken advantage of. It almost never happens, and you learn to identify those who will.

Of course this all pivots when/if you enter corporate leadership and part of your job is to use the morality/comfort of others as part of the container for getting your role accomplished.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#159

Post by jmugan »

visarga wrote: post #145

What does this say about the Chinese room argument? Is the model a Chinese room or does it understand the game. If it's just a Chinese room, how come it is so effective, if it understands the game how can it be possible with just a rule machine?

It's the Chinese room but it is effective because the game space is relatively small (compared to the real world) and you can cover that space with RL guiding NLP language generation.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#160

Post by californiadreem »

mistermann wrote: post #116
californiadreem wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we disagree at all. The empire never ended, I guess.

I suspect we disagree on whether (&/or what) should be done about it, if anything.

Disagreeing would require me to have a level of fixed perspective and permanent identity that I think you're assuming that I have.
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