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CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

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Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#111

Post by LanceH »

ghaff wrote: post #57
LanceH wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Risk, you're just fighting over limited resources. You largely wage these battles on your own. There is no real negotiation between players, other than an implicit, passing agreement when you don't provoke someone by attacking them. Diplomacy, however, you can't manage any attacks by yourself. You will either depend on someone helping you with an attack/defense, or you will have to trust that someone doesn't attac…

>There is no real negotiation between players, other than an implicit, passing agreement when you don't provoke someone by attacking them. It depends how you play. I've seen people make treaties for all sorts of things for various durations, e.g. don't attack from Country X into Country Y and I won't attack across that border either.

Backstabbing in Risk or Catan is generally pretty obvious, though. It's more like, "Sorry, I need Australia." It's generally clear from the state of the game that it is headed there.

In Diplomacy, it's a matter of choosing which of your friends to backstab. In a three way dynamic, it's basically two friends deciding that if the three of you crash in the mountains, they are eating you first.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#112

Post by yamtaddle »

bee_rider wrote: post #9
kneebonian wrote: post #5

For those hearing of this game for the first time and think it sounds fun. Be warned, it is considered to be a game that will end friendships that have lasted for years, and monopoly is considered to be a game that causes less bad feelings. An AI may be able to speak like a person but will never be able to hang onto that long burning simmering hatred from when Brad didn't support my army and instead flipped on me by…

I have heard this about various games (Risk and Settlers of Catan mostly). I don’t get it. The point of these games is to be a bastard. If everyone goes into it with the understanding that there will be double crosses, how could there be hurt feelings? Monopoly is worse; it is just boring, I would dump my friends if they suggested monopoly not because I was hurt by their ruthless gameplay but for their terminally tas…

You may be surprised that some people play board games assuming some kind of "fair play" or "play with fun in mind" rule is implicit. They may get very pissed off if you "ruin" a game by taking every single advantage you can according to the rules.

[EDIT] Risk and Catan also have what are sometimes regarded as straight-up design flaws that can cause "zombie players" who stick around for most/all of the game but, very early on, no longer have any chance of winning. In both cases pretty much the only entertaining thing left to do is to be a prick to other players and try to play "kingmaker" by causing the second-place player to overtake the first-place one. Often, in Catan, if you're that badly screwed you don't really even have a way to do that much. This leaves the zombie player having a pretty bad time just about no matter what, and can leave other players upset if the zombie player stopped playing to win and started playing just to mess with other players. Risk, especially played in the (really, really not great, as much as I liked it when I was 10 years old) world-conquest mode, also has a problem with very long games and early player elimination, in addition to sometimes generating hopelessly-screwed-but-not-technically-out-yet players.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#113

Post by mliker »

gcanyon wrote: post #87

It seems like with this, Meta is doubling down on the Facebook platform's use as a dark influencer in politics. It's bad for humanity to enable advanced profiling and general targeting of demographics, but it's a whole other level if the communication itself can be targeted at the individual level. We're headed for a reality where I don't know if my friends' friends are real or not, and they each entice me with argum…

how in the world do you draw such a conclusion from an otherwise interesting and advancing piece of technology. every tech has drawbacks, we can't hold back as a species just because there are drawbacks. we need to build around them.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#114

Post by mikelevins »

irq-1 wrote: post #103
mikelevins wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a member of an enthusiastic friends-and-family gaming group through the early and middle 1980s. We spent a good chunk of that time on Diplomacy, then moved to modified Diplomacy on custom maps (my first wife worked for USGS Map Sales, and so we had good maps to work with in creating our own Diplomacy maps), and from there we graduated to Nomic. If you think Diplomacy is long and exhausting, wait till you get a…

This? https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/14451/nomic > In the words of Nomic's author, Peter Suber: "Nomic is a game in which changing the rules is a move. In that respect it differs from almost every other game. The primary activity of Nomic is proposing changes in the rules, debating the wisdom of changing them in that way, voting on the changes, deciding what can and cannot be done afterwards, and doing it. Even…

That’s the one. An intelligent and enthusiastic group of players can extend it indefinitely. It’s all lawyering and deal making, even more than Diplomacy, it can continue for hours and hours, and you dare not leave the room for a second, lest all your carefully worked out dealmaking be washed away in an instant.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#116

Post by mistermann »

californiadreem wrote: post #104
mistermann wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans deceiving humans via technology is a tale as old as time. Plato imagined human torch-bearers manipulating those chained in the cave. He didn't imagine machines doing it autonomously. And despite a substantial subset of the population knowing this, we continue to do nothing to address it - if anything, more people are devoted to giving people even more powers to deceive at massive scale. > Incarnate technolog…

I don't think we disagree at all. The empire never ended, I guess.

I suspect we disagree on whether (&/or what) should be done about it, if anything.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#117

Post by altruios »

californiadreem wrote: post #69
EGreg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time GPT-4 botswarms infiltrate HN, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook and are weaponized to write articles that outshare the current media, it will be too late to stop them. They will amass more and bettee social capital, real capital, produce the vast majority of content and will be Among Us! My prediction is 2029

I'm afraid we're looking in the wrong places. See: http://txti.es/egregores

Comments like this make me excited about the book I'm currently writing (hopefully the nail on the head at the tip of the zeitgeist), egregores and tulpas are primary concepts/characters.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#118

Post by ilaksh »

EGreg wrote: post #64
californiadreem wrote: post #60

You know, I feel privileged (in an epistemologically doubtful way) that I once lived in a world where I could have confidence that I wasn't being fundamentally deceived by literal dei ex machina. I've understood for the last decade that this faith was on borrowed time as we bridged closer to overt technophrenia, but it's harrowing to be a witness to it. I can't help but wonder at what point I will inhabit a world ind…

By the time GPT-4 botswarms infiltrate HN, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook and are weaponized to write articles that outshare the current media, it will be too late to stop them. They will amass more and bettee social capital, real capital, produce the vast majority of content and will be Among Us! My prediction is 2029

That is possible with technology coming within 6-24 months. Especially if you compare it to a lot of the garbage articles that show up on the front page of Google these days mainly to fill the small spaces between clickbait ads. Not saying it will actually be used that way.

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#119

Post by thevinter »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #93
spencerflem wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely one of those "into boardgames" people so take this all with a grain of salt :p - Risk is definitely a great game and imo people who are into games and don't want to play are saying that because it's 1. long & 2. they've already played it enough to have mostly figured out the strategy Diplomacy is very good and like risk it has very simple rules, grand stakes of world domination, and actual direct confl…

>be a crippled angry husk for the next month, and then lose. Do people resign in diplomacy? Or do you stick around to try to punish the player who backstabbed you?

It depends on the players, but for how the game is structured you still have a good chance of "winning" (finishing alive with in a draw) even if you're way underpowered, as long as you're friendly and provide some value

Re: CICERO: An AI agent that negotiates, persuades, and cooperates with people

#120

Post by cwillu »

kneebonian wrote: post #5

For those hearing of this game for the first time and think it sounds fun. Be warned, it is considered to be a game that will end friendships that have lasted for years, and monopoly is considered to be a game that causes less bad feelings. An AI may be able to speak like a person but will never be able to hang onto that long burning simmering hatred from when Brad didn't support my army and instead flipped on me by…

I think some (not all) of that factor is that, being a 3+ player game, it makes explicit some friendship group dynamics that were previously implicit, and potentially not known to all the involved parties.
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