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Is wine fake?

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Re: Is wine fake?

#371

Post by randerson »

rdevsrex wrote: post #187

I'm surprised that no one talks about how a certain wine makes you feel. Ever since I started partaking in cannabis, I've noticed that many of the labels describe the effects you are likely to experience. Granted, wines aren't so different to reliably reproduce physical and mental effects, but maybe it's a new angle for marketing :)

I would love wine reviews where the reviewer drinks 3 glasses and then reviews how they feel the next morning. Wines use all sorts of additives to achieve their taste. Some wines leave me feeling worse the next day than others.

Re: Is wine fake?

#372

Post by SanjayMehta »

wgj wrote: post #283
antognini wrote: post #49

One of my professors in grad school was really into wine and every couple of years he would put on an after-hours wine tasting class for a semester. One of the points he made was that there are absolutely wines which are objectively better and worse and that experts can reliably tell them apart. He had met enough experts who could identify a vineyard and vintage blind to know there was something to it. But sitting on…

It looks like no one has said this yet. Many of the higher price/quality wines are expected to be cellared for a certain number of years after release. Opened too soon, they will have too much tannin and/or acidity. It costs money to keep wines under the correct conditions. One thing that drives up the price of a bottle is whether someone else already did this for you. A 2014 Bordeaux right now, on average, will cost…

What happens if I buy a 2022 wine today and store it for 5 years? Will it be the same as buying the same vintage in 2027 from the wine seller?

I guess what I'm asking is if there's some special storage requirements which can't be met at home?

Re: Is wine fake?

#373

Post by randerson »

etempleton wrote: post #121

Wine is just fermented grapes. It is not magic. Expensive bottles of wine may be better on average, but largely just because they put in even more quality controls and so deliver a more consistent wine. It is not magnitudes of a difference. People talk about wine like it is magic or high art. That there is something deeper to understand. There really isn’t.

It's not just grapes. Many wines technically aren't even vegan. Not uncommon for gelatin, egg whites, milk, or fish bladders and many other additives to be used in achieving the desired taste and color before the wine is filtered.

Re: Is wine fake?

#374

Post by janitor_monkey »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #372
wgj wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like no one has said this yet. Many of the higher price/quality wines are expected to be cellared for a certain number of years after release. Opened too soon, they will have too much tannin and/or acidity. It costs money to keep wines under the correct conditions. One thing that drives up the price of a bottle is whether someone else already did this for you. A 2014 Bordeaux right now, on average, will cost…

What happens if I buy a 2022 wine today and store it for 5 years? Will it be the same as buying the same vintage in 2027 from the wine seller? I guess what I'm asking is if there's some special storage requirements which can't be met at home?

If you store it in the shelf it will become vinegar.

Re: Is wine fake?

#376

Post by eloff »

School-Cotton wrote: post #294
Bayart wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common wisdom in France. If you're paying more than 20 euros for a bottle, it's probably already too much. And it's very common for people to buy in bulk at the favour of seasonal discounts or from the producer. If you want to look smart at a dinner party, bring a bottle of something nobody's ever heard about that's remarkably cheap for what you get.

Wine is far more expensive in the US than in France, for various reasons.

The thing that blew me away about France is you could buy a bottle of wine in the supermarket for less than a bottle of coca cola.

Re: Is wine fake?

#377

Post by wgj »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #372
wgj wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like no one has said this yet. Many of the higher price/quality wines are expected to be cellared for a certain number of years after release. Opened too soon, they will have too much tannin and/or acidity. It costs money to keep wines under the correct conditions. One thing that drives up the price of a bottle is whether someone else already did this for you. A 2014 Bordeaux right now, on average, will cost…

What happens if I buy a 2022 wine today and store it for 5 years? Will it be the same as buying the same vintage in 2027 from the wine seller? I guess what I'm asking is if there's some special storage requirements which can't be met at home?

You can cellar your own wine. Lots of people do it, but cellar conditions matter and it's an expensive hobby. It's nice to not need to know five years in advance what you will feel like drinking tonight. Optionality is worth something.

But yes, with care a hobbyist can do better than how some retail wine is kept.

Edit: The main points are 1) cool (~55F/13C), 2) dark, 3) not too dry (70% humidity is usually recommended. This is to protect the cork), and 4) store on its side, also to protect the cork from drying out. Five years is a long time.

Most retail wines are made to drink now though. If it's on the shelf it's ready.

Re: Is wine fake?

#378

Post by kube-system »

surement wrote: post #217
kube-system wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can absolutely get a top quality wine for Scarcity is the number one factor that determines the price of an expensive wine. A good quality wine from a recent vintage will cost less than an equally desirable wine from an older vintage, simply because people haven't drank most of it yet.

you can get great wine for under $60 but not top quality > Scarcity is the number one factor that determines the price of an expensive wine. just because something is rare doesn't mean it's good; a random rock on a beach is one of a kind but you couldn't sell it for a penny > good quality wine from a recent vintage will cost less than an equally desirable wine from an older vintage, simply because people haven't dran…

> just because something is rare doesn't mean it's good

That is precisely what I am saying. Rare (and because of that, expensive) doesn’t make a wine good.

> no, if it's less expensive it's because there is work involved in cellaring a wine and that adds value

Yes, for wines that are hundreds of dollars, but that doesn’t necessarily add any quality. For wines that are thousands of dollars, they’re just scarce.

Re: Is wine fake?

#379

Post by Retric »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #372
wgj wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like no one has said this yet. Many of the higher price/quality wines are expected to be cellared for a certain number of years after release. Opened too soon, they will have too much tannin and/or acidity. It costs money to keep wines under the correct conditions. One thing that drives up the price of a bottle is whether someone else already did this for you. A 2014 Bordeaux right now, on average, will cost…

What happens if I buy a 2022 wine today and store it for 5 years? Will it be the same as buying the same vintage in 2027 from the wine seller? I guess what I'm asking is if there's some special storage requirements which can't be met at home?

Depends on what your location and budget is. Storing wine outside or at room temperature doesn’t age it the same way a wine cellar in France would. In general you want ~53-57 Fahrenheit and 50-80% humidity depending on what exactly you want to happen.

Unfortunately, simply digging a hole in your back yard only gets it to the average temperature of your area which may be quite different to that hypothetical wine cellar in France.

In the end keeping even a fairly large room at whatever temperature and humidity level you desire isn’t that difficult, assuming you have the space and budget.

Re: Is wine fake?

#380

Post by dv_dt »

javiramos wrote: post #309
School-Cotton wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wine is far more expensive in the US than in France, for various reasons.

Curious — What are the reasons?

Frequently the wine seems hyper local - what I was there in a restaurant we often just ordered the house wine. If you talked to the waiters or owners it was frequently made locally and including by the owners grown in backyards of the hole in the wall places. I think it cuts out a lot of costs - and there was not a bad wine among them.
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