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Is wine fake?

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Re: Is wine fake?

#321

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

Ten years ago I spoke to a winemaker whose goal was to match the test of a certain top level price winning wine. She said that they did chemical analysis and never ending taste tests. She said that she was not the only one. They thought that low price wines should eventually taste just as good as any of the super expensive ones. Even then it was hard to tell the difference. She pointed out that the different types of wines would eventually taste very similar to the point that most people would not be able to tell the difference. The price she was aiming for was less than $20 per bottle.

I suspect that very bad wine is very evident but good wines are very hard to identify by taste since they are very similar in taste. The only difference is the bottle and the price.

Wine is like any other consumer product. People pay for the brand and the utility. But brand is the big price differentiator.

Re: Is wine fake?

#322

Post by stcredzero »

Bayart wrote: post #205
antognini wrote: post #49

One of my professors in grad school was really into wine and every couple of years he would put on an after-hours wine tasting class for a semester. One of the points he made was that there are absolutely wines which are objectively better and worse and that experts can reliably tell them apart. He had met enough experts who could identify a vineyard and vintage blind to know there was something to it. But sitting on…

It's common wisdom in France. If you're paying more than 20 euros for a bottle, it's probably already too much. And it's very common for people to buy in bulk at the favour of seasonal discounts or from the producer. If you want to look smart at a dinner party, bring a bottle of something nobody's ever heard about that's remarkably cheap for what you get.

It's common wisdom in France. If you're paying more than 20 euros for a bottle, it's probably already too much.

Works out to about $20 a bottle in California.

Re: Is wine fake?

#323

Post by dmonitor »

javiramos wrote: post #309
School-Cotton wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wine is far more expensive in the US than in France, for various reasons.

Curious — What are the reasons?

I know lots of US states have egregious liquor taxes. Alabama is particularly bad: 58% shelf price + $.45/L

Re: Is wine fake?

#324

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

wwweston wrote: post #198
triceratops wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The restaurant industry is brutal, low margin, and cut-throat. There's long hours and extremely hard work, and customers who don't give a shit about you. If you have a successful restaurant, it's probably because you have a good location (modulo those Michelin-starred gems in out-of-the-way small towns). So the landlord will do their best to extract any surplus value you generated through your skill and ingenuity. I'…

> the landlord will do their best to extract any surplus value you generated through your skill and ingenuity It sounds like you're describing landlord behavior where they don't simply arrive at a target rent and happily collect it, but attempt to actively monitor revenue of businesses renting from them and then ride the line between capturing that in rent increases below the line where it's worth it to the tenant no…

A SUPER common pattern with restaurants is someone moves in and develops a location, tries to make it work for a year or so, then tanks. Then a slightly more savvy restaurateur leases the location along with the previous tenants buildout for far less, makes minimal renovations, and then makes it a success.

Re: Is wine fake?

#325

Post by ketralnis »

dmix wrote: post #286
analog31 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have sometimes speculated that the purpose of the $50 bottles is to make you think that you're being sensible by buying a $20 bottle, when really the $10 bottle is just fine. A few people will certainly buy the $50 bottle, but the real money is in upsale at the lower end.

Reminds me of the loss leader strategy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader A retail shop will put TVs on sale for 50% off but only keep 5 in stock. They advertise it everywhere, 100 people show up looking for cheap TVs, find it's out-of-stock and buy one of the expensive ones that are only 5-10% off.

That's not a loss leader, and in fact depending on the jurisdiction might actually be illegal[0]. Loss leaders are intended to be actually sold.

A loss leader might be Costco hot dogs or cheap razor handle for which replacement cartridges are the true profit centre

[0]: https://portal.ct.gov/DCP/Common-Elements/Consumer-Facts-and... https://consumered.georgia.gov/ask-ed/2015-09-08/do-stores-h... http://www.ossh.com/firearms/caag.state.ca.us/consumers/gene...

Re: Is wine fake?

#326

Post by School-Cotton »

javiramos wrote: post #309
School-Cotton wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wine is far more expensive in the US than in France, for various reasons.

Curious — What are the reasons?

High taxes, transportation cost, and, (for explaining why Californian wine in California is more expensive than French wine in France), economies of scale and subsidies in France.

Re: Is wine fake?

#327

Post by gravelc »

My absolute favourite wine in the world is less than AU$30 a bottle - every vintage is spectacular. The winemaker wants ordinary people to drink his wines, so this is the price he sets. They are accordingly very difficult to buy - cellar door opens for just 2 weekends a year and supply is very limited. I’d back virtually anyone who likes this style to genuinely enjoy it, without knowing anything about its provenance.

I’ve tasted wines 10x or 20x the price, and they really are no better. They likely cost exactly the same to make, but their price is impacted by demand.

In general, I think most people can tell a $10 bottle from a $30 bottle. I suspect very very few could reliably pick a $300 bottle from a $30 bottle.

Re: Is wine fake?

#328

Post by FpUser »

bnralt wrote: post #304
antognini wrote: post #49

One of my professors in grad school was really into wine and every couple of years he would put on an after-hours wine tasting class for a semester. One of the points he made was that there are absolutely wines which are objectively better and worse and that experts can reliably tell them apart. He had met enough experts who could identify a vineyard and vintage blind to know there was something to it. But sitting on…

> One of the points he made was that there are absolutely wines which are objectively better and worse and that experts can reliably tell them apart. He had met enough experts who could identify a vineyard and vintage blind to know there was something to it. But sitting on top of that there is a frothy market that is driven by fads, speculation, and hype. I'm sure there are people that can identify different tastes.…

I tasted some sparkling wines that to me were way better than Dom Perignon. And Pino Noir (forgot particular brand) I get for 20 Canadian pesos again tasted to me way better that some wine I bought for $120 to check why the fuck does it cost so much.

So yes I am pretty sure that some wine is objectively better than sulfuric acid but the rest is just a matter of individual taste. It does not matter that the tester can distinguish between 2 buttles of the same wine and tell the year it's been produced.

Re: Is wine fake?

#329

Post by bergenty »

tptacek wrote: post #314
bergenty wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once asked for a very smoky whisky and was bought out something completely clear.

There's a bunch of pale straw colored Islays (Ardbeg comes to mind). "Completely clear" would throw me off a bit, but very light? Sure.

It was very smoky and tasted like whiskey. It was probably straw colored, it was dim yellow lighting in there.

Re: Is wine fake?

#330

Post by technothrasher »

glxxyz wrote: post #315
dmix wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the loss leader strategy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader A retail shop will put TVs on sale for 50% off but only keep 5 in stock. They advertise it everywhere, 100 people show up looking for cheap TVs, find it's out-of-stock and buy one of the expensive ones that are only 5-10% off.

You're describing Bait and switch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch

Right, that's bait and switch. A loss leader would be you selling milk at a loss in order to get people into the store and then get them to buy the high margin cookies as well.
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