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Is wine fake?

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Re: Is wine fake?

#211

Post by bombcar »

mauvehaus wrote: post #193
bombcar wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people say you can't tell the difference between Pepsi, Coke, and the diet versions of both, but I certainly can. I've no doubt a sommelier can tell differences between wines. What I do suspect is that you can enjoy moderately priced wines just as well as many more expensive ones.

I once found myself at a fast food joint where there was a self serve fountain with Diet Coke in the regular Coke dispenser. I hesitantly asked if that was the case and the counter person cheerfully admitted that they'd run out of regular Coke and figured nobody would notice the substitution. I regret not asking how many people had, in fact, noticed and inquired.

I think people who regularly drink Coke might not notice the difference right away but for someone who drinks diet drinks, regular coke tastes like straight syrup now.

Re: Is wine fake?

#212

Post by [deleted] »

int_19h wrote: post #209
Bayart wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common wisdom in France. If you're paying more than 20 euros for a bottle, it's probably already too much. And it's very common for people to buy in bulk at the favour of seasonal discounts or from the producer. If you want to look smart at a dinner party, bring a bottle of something nobody's ever heard about that's remarkably cheap for what you get.

This depends on the specific kind of wine you're looking for, surely? It would be hard to find icewine for 20 euros, I'd think.

[deleted]

Re: Is wine fake?

#213

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Two scientific points to bring up about this article:

1. When the author talks about Coke vs. Pepsi, he comes to the conclusion that the reason people prefer Pepsi in blind taste tests but Coke in unblinded ones is "Think of it as the brain combining two sources of input to make a final taste perception: the actual taste of the two sodas and a preconceived notion (probably based on great marketing) that Coke should taste better." I've read elsewhere, though, that the reason for this difference is actually because of the difference between "sip tests" vs. "drinking tests". Pepsi is objectively sweeter than Coke, so if you're just taking a few quick sips (as most taste tests are set up), you may prefer the sweeter taste of Pepsi because it stands out more, but if you're drinking a whole bunch, the sweeter taste of Pepsi can feel cloying.

2. The article includes this quote, "the correlation between price and overall rating is small and negative, suggesting that individuals on average enjoy more expensive wines slightly less." I wonder if this could be due to Berkon's paradox, a statistical paradox that was on the HN front page yesterday, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33677781. After all, I'm guessing most truly bad wines may not be rated at all.

Re: Is wine fake?

#214

Post by mod »

wwweston wrote: post #181
deadbunny wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the distance between "I like playing video games" and "I want to work for an AAA developer".

"I like playing video games" would be analogous to "I like dining out." "I like making video games" would be analogous "I like to cook." Of course "I like making video games" might not mean "I want to work for an AAA developer", but the reasons why would probably be different than those you wouldn't want to make a commercial indie title / open your own restaurant.

As a video game player, developer (non-game), bar/restaurant owner, and a person who likes to cook:

I think the distance between them is about the same, as the GP noted. It's not analogous, but they didn't make that claim.

I have only cooked less than 1% of the time the restaurant has been open. Also "enjoying cooking" has nothing to do with enjoying a commercial kitchen. Pretty sure literally at all.

I feel compelled to put out quality food, but I do not enjoy it at all when I'm not cooking at home.

Re: Is wine fake?

#215

Post by kodachrome64 »

extragood wrote: post #184
nier wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does red wine from Ontario end up more expensive than the one from abroad when the laws are set up to favor the wine from Ontario?

I'd guess cost of labor is a major factor. If you buy any California wine, for instance, it was picked by a migrant worker. Times haven't changed much since Grapes of Wrath, other than it's typically Latino workers rather than Dust Bowl refugees.

As someone living in an Ontario wine growing region, I can assure you that we bring in plenty of migrant workers every year.

Re: Is wine fake?

#216

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

bsder wrote: post #107

The Pepsi Challenge has LOTS of faults and isn't a great example. I believe that one of the "debunkings" about the Pepsi Challenge was that people preferred the initial swig of Pepsi but preferred Coke if the question was asked after more consumption, after the beverage had warmed up, etc. Effectively, you could set up the situation to get people to choose one or the other quite easily.

I've also heard that Pepsi is sweeter than Coke, and that after the initial swig, some people that at first said they liked the Pepsi more were turned off by the sweetness.

Re: Is wine fake?

#217

Post by surement »

kube-system wrote: post #133
surement wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you don't know how to appreciate well-made things doesn't mean that they're strictly ostentatious.

You can absolutely get a top quality wine for Scarcity is the number one factor that determines the price of an expensive wine. A good quality wine from a recent vintage will cost less than an equally desirable wine from an older vintage, simply because people haven't drank most of it yet.

you can get great wine for under $60 but not top quality

> Scarcity is the number one factor that determines the price of an expensive wine.

just because something is rare doesn't mean it's good; a random rock on a beach is one of a kind but you couldn't sell it for a penny

> good quality wine from a recent vintage will cost less than an equally desirable wine from an older vintage, simply because people haven't drank most of it yet.

no, if it's less expensive it's because there is work involved in cellaring a wine and that adds value

Re: Is wine fake?

#218

Post by int_19h »

retrac wrote: post #86
gspencley wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been a lot of blind wine tastings done and the results are always interesting. Sometimes cheap bottles score as high, or higher than vintages. Other times people can spot the cheap "carton" wine easily. My wife and I love to cook, have discussed opening our own restaurant, have eaten at lots of very expensive "haute cuisine" restaurants and have tasted lots of wines. Part of the "problem" is that taste is…

I learned the secret in my mid-20s whilst brewing my own cider as a poor student. Take some decent apple juice without preservatives. Add a bit of yeast; baking yeast for bread at the supermarket will do just fine. Observe basic sanitation principles. Add some sugar, perhaps 150 g per litre of juice. Leave the concoction in a cool, dry place for a few months. A one-way seal for the CO2 release is preferable (a balloo…

I remember the USSR during Gorbachev's anti-alcohol campaign - you could walk out onto the balcony of a large apartment building, and see hands waving at you from most other balconies. Not people's hands, mind you - it was rubber gloves, used as a one-way seal on top of large glass bottles used to brew fruit wine. The fruit itself varied depending on what people had access to and the season - I've seen apple, plum, cherry, blackcurrant etc.

Re: Is wine fake?

#219

Post by SergeAx »

I am a wine enthusiast for about 10 years. On an average week I am tasting 2-3 wines. I can definitely tell good wine from bad and more or less guess grape variety and geography in blind tasting.

Saying all that, I am mostly buying wines in $20-$30 price range, because most of the times I can't tell difference between good $20 and good $50 wine in blind tasting. I strongly beleive that $100+ wines are nothing but a marketing, except really old (30+ years) vintages. Those are just pricing for their rarity, not their taste, and mostly used as an expensive presents.

There are also things like favorite regions (mine is Tuscany and South Italy), vintages (2006 and 2010 in Italy were mostly golden, 2016 is very promising) and innumerable hacks like buying wine across the road from that prestigious chateaus and terroirs, or tasting non-Champagne sparkling from France - same quality for half the price. It's funny and tasty game, I like it.

Re: Is wine fake?

#220

Post by Grustaf »

I don't even know how to process this. It doesn't jibe with my experience at all. Obviously almost anyone can tell the difference between red and white wine, they are completely dissimilar, like orange juice and apple juice. It's very hard to believe that anyone that had both will confuse them.

And even I, who have no expertise at all, no real interest even, can mostly tell if a wine is from France or Italy for example, and most of the time if it's cheap or not.

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