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Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

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Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#31

Post by darklajid »

waqf wrote: post #13
rasur wrote: post #8

With respect, "The Internet" also exists beyond the borders of the United States of America, so while we outside of the US can look on at this spectacle with a mixture of amusement and dread, it's just a little galling to be told to understand something we have little control over. I'm not meaning to sound disrespectful, I'm just trying to explain this slow-moving car-crash of a situation has effects outside of your…

Funnily enough, individual Americans also have little control over Congress. I think we're all in the same boat here (and I don't even think the article implied otherwise).

I think the GP refers mostly to the title.

No, the 'internet' doesn't need to learn about Congress, since the internet is a world-wide thing. I won't learn about politics in the USA anytime soon (no disrespect here, it's just of no interest to me and that's how I like it), but the article addresses me too.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#32

Post by OoTheNigerian »

And then the USG insists 'democracy' is the only right way for people to be governed. The reality is, it is money, not the 'right thing' that determines what laws are passed and how it is enfored. And who is elected to make thise laws.

It is sad. Really.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#34

Post by jaysonelliot »

gasull wrote: post #21

This is an invitation to play the lobby game. To me it reads like "we should bribe Congress too". But can we do that? Large corporations will have disproportionally much more economic power to bribe Congress. They can throw money at the problem repeatedly until they have exactly the law they want. If Congress cannot work, then Congress should write the laws but not vote them. Citizens should vote the laws, like in Ca…

Have you looked at how that's worked out for California?

Thanks to ballot measures, the people of California voted to never raise their own property taxes, and then later voted to require massive spending initiatives in education and other places, which of course went unfunded, because they'd voted not to pay for anything.

Now California has regular budget crises that are essentially unsolvable, thanks to citizens voting on laws.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#35

Post by jerf »

JonnieCache wrote: post #26
CWuestefeld wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice thoughts, but resolve individual clauses down to individual lawmakers, then back to lobbyists. In some cases you might be able to attribute a clause to a lobbyist, but this isn't the general case. And how could this be enforced? outward facing interface allowing the public to track the progress of bills in real time, increasing democratic awareness and participation. This exists, and doesn't seem to be helping.…

>Most of these just wind up saying "Interstate Commerce". In other words, you'll never be able to enforce this in any meaningful way. In my imagined utopia, all these justifying messages would be listed on a lawmaker's github profile-style page next to a big picture of their face, and any lawmaker with a long list of "interstate commerce" type messages would look like an unelectable crypto-fascist in the eyes of the…

And how do you plan on getting Congress to agree to use a system in which vast swathes of them will "look like an unelectable crypto-fascist in the eyes of the public"?

Do you want to bring Democracy back to the system (or your choice of roughly equivalent question), or are you just trying to put your own political ideals on a privileged pedestal? I think one of the key reasons we have been unable to successfully reform things is that in general, people want the latter a lot more than they want the former. And DC knows what to do with those types... embrace, extend, embed.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#36

Post by Thrymr »

gasull wrote: post #21

This is an invitation to play the lobby game. To me it reads like "we should bribe Congress too". But can we do that? Large corporations will have disproportionally much more economic power to bribe Congress. They can throw money at the problem repeatedly until they have exactly the law they want. If Congress cannot work, then Congress should write the laws but not vote them. Citizens should vote the laws, like in Ca…

One thing still counts more than money, and that is votes. I know that sounds naive, but there is still truth in it. There are multiple problems with using the power of the ballot box, including safe districts for incumbents, apathy of the electorate, etc., but for issues on which the public can be successfully rallied, there is still real potential to leverage much smaller sums of in terms of dollars to have real influence. Also, individuals and small organizations can lobby directly, too - make an appointment with your congressional office, either locally or in DC, and sit down directly with a staff member to express your concerns. You need to be organized and prepared, but it is your right, and they do listen - it's just that the small voices often get drowned out. If you don't have money to give, use your time and knowledge.

A rule of thumb I've heard for the weighting of different constituent opinions is that 1 office visit = 100 letters, 1 letter = 100 phone calls, 1 phone call = 100 emails. (One email might be a million names on an online petition, I don't know.) Faxes count as letters, but both only count as above if they are (or look) personal, not a form letter. Opinions from people outside a Congressman's district don't count for much, unless they have a direct business or other interest in the district.

(-1 for citizens voting the laws. California is not a model of effective democracy. Fix the Republic!)

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#37

Post by sp332 »

_gd3l wrote: post #25

"I don't complain about politicians because everyone does. This politician sucks, that politician is a fucking idiot. Yeah, we'll guess what asshole? YOU KEEP VOTING FOR THESE MORONS! You keep arguing about democrat vs. republican, you keep asking for things from the government, you keep on voting for the people you complain about. You legitimize the bullshit. This is what you get for wanting to be led like little ch…

Give https://soundcloud.com/ a try?

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#38

Post by msy »

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

American geeks: if you want to fix your congress using your preexisting l33t hacker skillz rather than getting directly involved in politics (and who could blame you,) then here is my best advice: Force your legislature to start using version control. * No more sneaking revisions through in the middle of the night without anyone noticing. * Being able to do `git blame` style operations to resolve individual clauses d…

IBM's Many Bills (http://manybills.researchlabs.ibm.com/) did much of what you're suggesting. The problem is making people interested and engaged enough to use these tools and push their congresscritters to act in the interest of their constituents rather than their paymasters/lobbyists.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#39

Post by arrel »

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

American geeks: if you want to fix your congress using your preexisting l33t hacker skillz rather than getting directly involved in politics (and who could blame you,) then here is my best advice: Force your legislature to start using version control. * No more sneaking revisions through in the middle of the night without anyone noticing. * Being able to do `git blame` style operations to resolve individual clauses d…

I think this misses the point for getting software into congress - it has to be something they want to use, not just something we want them to use. These are awesome ideas, but once we get into the "force your legislature to start using..." then it's pretty much dead in the water. We need to make software that makes parts of their jobs 10x better, and unfortunately that'll have to include a few ways for politicians to obfuscate and make decisions behind closed doors.

Re: Dear Internet: It's no Longer OK Not to Know How Congress Works

#40

Post by illamint »

You'd think that tech companies involved would have a stronger lobbying arm. Every one of those extremely wealthy individuals that signed onto that "open letter" to congress should be funding lobbyists in combination with Google, ISPs, etc. and every provider out there who stands to lose from the passage of SOPA.

Seriously, look at it. The IP lobby is spending millions to buy out Congress and we've got the billionaires and corporations that are significantly larger, richer and more powerful than the IP lobby writing fucking letters?

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