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We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

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Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#151

Post by jondeval »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #143
gwd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the problem thinking they're trying to address here is the idea, "I'm suffering because I've done something bad and am being punished by God." But if they think this kind of thinking is directly linked to religion, then it's just ignorance and bigotry. Consider the folloing quote: "Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions." The people I know who most…

>Christianity says that far from suffering always being a punishment from God for bad behavior. Besides, you know... Hell, lakes of sulfur and eternal damnation.

> Besides, you know...

For those interested in knowing the actual Christian teaching on the topic of hell, just be aware that this comment is completely incorrect.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#152

Post by sirsinsalot »

drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

I think this is a really important point. We use lots of terms these days in ever more generic ways: cult, gaslighting, abuse, "I'm a bit OCD" ... each broader use of the language weakens the contexts where the language is more pointed.

Of course, context is everything and language is fluid, but think pieces that inadvertently soften words can also downgrade important intentions as a side-effect.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#154

Post by tomrod »

gwd wrote: post #138
vincnetas wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure it's religion. You will experience unpleasant feelings here. Feelings your cult has told you are of the devil. Part of our program involves exposing you to the idea that there are very rarely easy answers in life. People suffer for no reason. You will suffer, and have suffered, for no reason. But people can also do great things for no reason, or rather unmotivated by some promise of godly exaltation o…

It sounds like the problem thinking they're trying to address here is the idea, "I'm suffering because I've done something bad and am being punished by God." But if they think this kind of thinking is directly linked to religion, then it's just ignorance and bigotry. Consider the folloing quote: "Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions." The people I know who most…

With due respect, many survivors of religion appreciate the harm that magical thinking causes, to which remaining adherents interpret as bigotry since to recognize said issue generates significant pain and cognitive dissonance. To acknowledge such is not bigotry but lived experience of exiting organizations that do not allow you to leave with your dignity intact. Is your counterthesis that the article is bigoted because it notes that magical thinking (attribution of positive and negative events as an effect stemming from an external entity's judgment) is usually not a good explanation for cause?

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#155

Post by P_I_Staker »

drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

Yeah cults are pretty specific beasts

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#156

Post by drewbug01 »

tapland wrote: post #148
drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

It's been very hard finding a psychologist in Scandinavia who even understands the concept. And lately it's been getting really bad having to re-tell the reasons for the PTSD diagnosis to doctors who go "oh, well, a lot of people _say _they have PTSD"

I had a similar experience finding a therapist who could work with “religious trauma”. Part of the reason I finally started calling it a cult (despite the stigma) is that at least in the US that seemed to help people understand that I meant something deeper and darker than the average person.

(Not to mention: a lot of people get really touchy with the idea that religion can be “traumatic” at all.)

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#157

Post by jondeval »

archon1410 wrote: post #145
gwd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the problem thinking they're trying to address here is the idea, "I'm suffering because I've done something bad and am being punished by God." But if they think this kind of thinking is directly linked to religion, then it's just ignorance and bigotry. Consider the folloing quote: "Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions." The people I know who most…

Look like you might be in a cult.

Maybe Christianity is not a cult, but the cult. When I hear people call a group a cult, what they typically mean is that the group is a pale imitation of Christianity.

Many Christians would likely take issue with this description because they don't want to be on the wrong side of the dirty word cult.

But I personally don't think it's much of a problem if the person you worship is Jesus of Nazareth.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#158

Post by drewbug01 »

tomrod wrote: post #150
drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

As a fellow cult survivor, I agree with your view. Almost 10 years out, my spouse and I still make inside jokes for the insider speech and content. However, the exit process is one that seems exclusively designed to prevent dignity from being maintained. Ed: > They have never experienced the ongoing heartbreak of losing your entire world when you leave - your family, your friends, your job, your social life, your rel…

I definitely get that - I don’t have anyone close to me right now that escaped (sadly not all of those escapes were permanent), but I’ve been able to joke around with fellow survivors in the past. It felt really freeing to be able to talk openly enough such that we could crack a joke about it. :)

I’m glad you and your wife were able to get out, too. :)

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#159

Post by tskguarantee »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #143
gwd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the problem thinking they're trying to address here is the idea, "I'm suffering because I've done something bad and am being punished by God." But if they think this kind of thinking is directly linked to religion, then it's just ignorance and bigotry. Consider the folloing quote: "Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions." The people I know who most…

>Christianity says that far from suffering always being a punishment from God for bad behavior. Besides, you know... Hell, lakes of sulfur and eternal damnation.

Maybe this will be unpopular, but Hell is not that bad of a place. In my opinion, Hell is exactly what many people on earth are asking for.

Many people I know who dislike religion say that if there is a god, they wish he would leave them alone. They want to live in a world where god does not exist.

This is what Hell is. Hell is simply a place where god is not, completely separate from god and his influence.

The reason Christianity describes Hell as a place of suffering is because god is the sole source of good in the universe. So Hell, a place without god, is a place without any good.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#160

Post by tomrod »

drewbug01 wrote: post #156
tapland wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been very hard finding a psychologist in Scandinavia who even understands the concept. And lately it's been getting really bad having to re-tell the reasons for the PTSD diagnosis to doctors who go "oh, well, a lot of people _say _they have PTSD"

I had a similar experience finding a therapist who could work with “religious trauma”. Part of the reason I finally started calling it a cult (despite the stigma) is that at least in the US that seemed to help people understand that I meant something deeper and darker than the average person. (Not to mention: a lot of people get really touchy with the idea that religion can be “traumatic” at all.)

Isn't that odd, that people are gunshy to acknowledge religion as traumatic?

There is one comment on the board calling out the article's negatively towards magical thinking as bigotry. To folks that are recovering from religious trauma, it's straight up lived experience.

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