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AWS and Blockchain

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Re: AWS and Blockchain

#181
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standardized and encrypted healthcare records. It means wherever you travel you can: 1. Access your health records at your discretion; and 2. Make sure these records are never lost and 3. These records are immutable. Encrypted records can be easily added by any doctor/clinic as your public key is publicly available.

Healthcare records frequently need to be modified (e.g. a test was done incorrectly and needs to be voided). Sure, you can stick another entry in there saying "modify this other entry", but then any operations involve canonicalizing the state by scanning the entire subsequent chain. All the caching/indexing optimizations I can think of to make this not a complete nightmare also break all the data privacy and RTBF pro…

> then any operations involve canonicalizing the state by scanning the entire subsequent chain

Sounds exactly like what blockchain node software does when you first start it up and it syncs the chain?

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#182
In case anyone needs a thorough source to explain why you don't need a Blockchain, I found the NIST paper (esp the flowchart on page 42) quite helpful:

https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2018/nist.ir.8202.pdf

It worked wonderfully to cut the BS coming from a greedy manager, in a non confrontational way ("so, what do you actually need?" , "you say 'security', but which aspect do you need? immutability ? non-repudiability? confidentiality??"). I think NIST's clout helped, along that they'd have to fully understand a 65 page report. I'm sure the content of the report would have been quite eye-opening, but that wasn't needed. Greed is a feeling, not a rational process.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#183
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total disagree and not sure why you believe why any of those woukd have value added if on blockchain. Especially, health care records, wtf??

Standardized and encrypted healthcare records. It means wherever you travel you can: 1. Access your health records at your discretion; and 2. Make sure these records are never lost and 3. These records are immutable. Encrypted records can be easily added by any doctor/clinic as your public key is publicly available.

> Standardized and encrypted healthcare records.

This is probably a non-starter in many cases. In my country, we had an e-health system that had millions invested in its development (we're a small country) and yet didn't work, nor was it really compatible with the systems already in place: https://www-delfi-lv.translate.goog/news/national/politics/e... (translated link)

> Title: E-health is written off: those responsible for the "fraud" worth millions went unpunished, will create a new system

> Excerpt: Its unpredictable operation has caused quite a lot of worries not only for doctors, but also for patients, who may go to the pharmacy for the medicine prescribed by the doctor and not get it, because e-health has rebelled. Likewise, e-health tends to be incompatible with the local systems of some large medical institutions, so there are situations when the electronic referral of a family doctor to a medical institution must be printed anyway.

> On the other hand, doctor Nīcmane-Aišpure remembers a case when she visited a patient during a home visit, concluded that the condition was serious, wrote an electronic referral to call an ambulance, but "the ambulance is unhappy because the electronic referral cannot be opened".

> The eHealth system also still requires users to perform many manual steps. "It is a manual system, where at best you can extract some Excel files," says Solvita Olsen, a sworn lawyer and associate professor at the University of Latvia, who has been following the e-health saga since its inception.

And that was a system that didn't even try anything new, how do you imagine most mediocre countries out there will manage to deal with the technical complexity of blockchain based systems? Why even bother at that point, wouldn't they be better off with an XML or JSON schema or whatever other lowest common denominator one can come up with, to have some base data about the person and then additional bits that might be dependent on each country's laws?

It's not like there aren't people that enter the data in these systems anyways, in your example of shipment tracking, someone could enter whatever data they want regardless. Want to make it appear that a package has left the country, even when you haven't bothered to send it out? Sure, just bribe whoever is running the system, very much like: https://xkcd.com/538/

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#184
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edited to decentralized.

DNS is already decentralized, it's one of the most decentralized projects on the internet. And while domains (not DNS) are less decentralized, it's all standardised and protocol based. If you want decentralized domains you need to champion for alternative DNS roots because all the technology is already there, just change the config file and get the people to do the same. Which is less effort than creating a whole new…

> And while domains (not DNS) are less decentralized, it's all standardised and protocol based.

For what it's worth as an example, Ethereum's name system (ENS) is also standardized and protocol based. And it eliminates the requirement of centralized registry corporations.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just solve this with locking or a (self referencing) unique foreign key constraint on any mainstream SQL db though. If we include programming langues as well, the possible amount of solutions multiplies.

As the article's author says at some point society is always built on trust in another entity. Crypto fully shifts this from the database operator to the software developer and is willing to accept significant trade offs to do so. Most of the unique complexity and challenges in blockchain technology originates from this.

The author also says all of the implementations he witnessed were reliant on databases and did not require the unique complexity and challenges of the blockchain.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#186
With regards to the land markers.

You could have a database at the government land authority. If markers in the field don't match up with records, the land authority will ask police to correct the issue.

If neither police nor land authority can be trusted to keep records and uphold the law, who is going to help you when a marker in the field doesn't match up to some distributed database?

Big land owner will say "I don't know anything about that record in the sky. But look at this land marker on the ground. That's reality!" and with no police, who is going to help you?

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#187
post #139

It is a shame that we are ending up here with "Blockchain technology". Beyond the financial aspect (Bitcoin/Stablecoins), here are a few use cases where a Blockchain will shine : - Tracking shipments across countries. This is an append-only operation, across multiple jurisdictions/languages/infrastructures. A blockchain ledger can play the role of standardizing operations for the tracking of shipments. - Healthcare r…

Garbage in, garbage out. Tracking shipments only works if you have proof that the shipment wasn't tampered with. Tracking shipments is only as reliable as the carrier not mucking with it, and we already have tamper-proof tape for solving that one. It doesn't prove anything, though. It's merely a tool in our arsenal of confirming trust, that makes it easier to tell where the problem lies if someone along the chain is…

> It's merely a tool in our arsenal of confirming trust, that makes it easier to tell where the problem lies if someone along the chain is lying.

That makes it a useful tool, no?

> people trying to create the "feature" of not having that feature are called anarchists

Smart contracts are partial to neither law nor anarchy. It's trivial to write token code that allows a centralized service to transfer said token without the owner's permission. And that token still enjoys the benefits of being interoperable by default with other tokens and contracts that may not be under that same centralized service's control, yet are written to the same protocol standard.

> All of these are reasons for actual cryptography - Signatures and Merkel Trees. Blockchains have no advantages in any of them.

Blockchains provide reliable ordering and timestamping, something that cryptography itself cannot provide. Cryptographic shipment signing/tracking isn't very useful if the company can retroactively create a conflicting chain of backdated signatures and purport it to be the canonical one.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#188
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Blockchain was invented to solve one particular problem: distributed consensus on a sequence of transactions, where the choice of which transaction to include from a set of conflicting transactions is irrelevant. The latter property here is key to understanding where blockchain is useful. It was created to solve the "double spend problem", ie. two transitions that spend the same coin but send it to different reci…

Is there a double spend problem in fiat currencies? Honestly, I do not think there is. So what is the point of cryptocurrency?

yes, the entire reason a bank is needed in all online transactions is because nobody trusts YOU to not double spend, but they do trust the bank to make sure they don't let you spend your money twice.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#189
post #63
post #35

Tim didn't mention a contemporary sibling tech at AWS which should not be thrown out with the bathwater: private (centralized), immutable, signed ledgers. Their version is called QLDB and does have concrete applications where you need an provable audit trail of a stream of transactions with search and index on top. I was on a team at a fintech closely engaged with AWS to prototype a money movement system using that a…

> […] compliance […]. This is the crux of the matter. In a prevailing number of cases, when people ask about a blockchain, they actually want a ledger database with the following properties: – an immutable, tamper proof, append-only transaction log; – cryptographically verifiable datasets; – certification and/or compliance validation by externally accredited auditing bodies for SOC, PCI-DSS, ISO, HIPPA etc. Use cases…

Ledgers are quite easy to build. Git is a ledger. It doesn't use a block chain but it does link commits via their hashes; which makes it an audit proof ledger. Unless you can break the hashes, you can't modify its history.

And git is used between many different developers and companies working on the same projects. It was actually designed for this use case. The reason git doesn't need blockchains for this is because it funnels all the commits and pull requests through trusted code owners: people. The consensus model is very simple: a mutually respected developer has looked at the thing and gave their thumbs up.

Banks, insurers, etc. use ledgers. But mostly they lack cryptographic safety. And they use a similar reputation based consensus model. Auditors, regulators, accountants, etc. It's good enough but the failure modes can be somewhat expensive. And of course the flaky nature of the whole system actually represents a business opportunity in it self. Banking is a very lucrative business.

Blockchains are potentially a nicer/cheaper technical alternative for all this. But so far not an essential or very practical one. And of course most block chains have scaling challenges. Ethereum is a non starter for running anything at scale. Transactions are too slow, too costly and the throughput sucks. Even with the new version it's still nowhere good enough to run even a small bank. Highly unsuitable for running millions of accounts on where the cost of each transaction would far exceed the value of that transaction.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read upthread, the example given was that of Asian farmers who struggle with markers being damaged by floods. A cheap device that was able to locate reference points with GPS to some sort of online land registry would potentially avoid these disputes. Blockchain could be a tool to mitigate the limited connectivity available. It’s potentially a way to make information more available and maybe facilitate certain…

So what happens when a rich baron approaches a farmer who's exact GPS ownership record is registered on the blockchain and says "transfer digital ownership of your land to me, or i kill your sister"? Exactly the same thing as what happens without a blockchain. Weak institutions are absolutely a problem in human society, but they are not solved by decentralization technology.

Even better for the land owner, they (or more likely a "subcontractor") can force the transfer once and even if courts get involved and decide in favor of the farmer, the records can't be corrected if they are based on blockchain technology.

A less violent example would be a fraud based on social engineering.

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