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AWS and Blockchain

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Re: AWS and Blockchain

#51
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion how long is it before the dust will settle? IMHO, the dust has already settled and been washed away by the rain water..

I think there are 2 scenarios really: 1) btc and eth go to zero or 2) we have btc and eth gaining the full recognition and regulation Blockchain as a technology is revolutionary and will be used in niche problems outside of crypto. One thing that most people seem to miss is that money is only as good as our faith in it. No matter what instrument you use this has to apply.

I, personally, don’t think we’ll get to either of those two scenarios for a really really long time.

Reason, too much money has been invested into them. I believe it’ll trickle to zero slowly, but very slowly, over a long period marked by lot of volatility.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#52
The utility of decentralized blockchains is that they facilitate permissionless financial innovation. Yes, that means "regulatory arbitrage". But not just circumventing the law, more importantly, circumventing the de facto law of corporate gatekeepers.

A substantial amount of de facto financial regulation comes not from democratically elected governments, but from companies that gate-keep access to the databases where financial truth resides. A great example of this is Visa and Mastercard dropping PornHub as a client. But there are many others. Building software that interfaces with money is extremely difficult, what you can and cannot do is extremely limited, and you may only do so at the pleasure of the major financial institutions that sit between your code and the traditional financial system.

Right now, if you want to write code that manipulate's someone's money, you have to ask the permission of both the owner of the funds, and several intermediaries along the way. What those intermediaries choose to allow you to do can be arbitrary, capricious, and certainly is not democratic.

It is true that decentralized blockchains also facilitate the flouting of the law, and that can be good or bad, depending on your point of view. But fundamentally, having an open fabric for finance, in which anyone can build any kind of application they wish, seems like a pretty cool thing to me.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#53

For the older devs, has there been anything in the past like this? As in some new hyped tech that people kept trying to insert into their business?

* Certain aspects of social networks (I remember leadership at google being convinced everyone will do online stuff on social networks in around 2011)

* To much smaller extent some core tech like NoSQL, SOA

* More recently - AR/VR bubble

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#54

I think the farmers use case can totally work as long as those land parcels are also on the blockchain.

That whole story sounds a bit apocryphal but even if it's true this is some sort of semi-literate culture. If they're making marks in mud, how are they supposed to encode geographic positions with enough accuracy and write them to a computer system of any kind. And then have everyone understand and agree to what it means. Why it would it be superior to taking a picture and posting it to Whatsapp or Facebook?

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#55
post #52

The utility of decentralized blockchains is that they facilitate permissionless financial innovation. Yes, that means "regulatory arbitrage". But not just circumventing the law, more importantly, circumventing the de facto law of corporate gatekeepers. A substantial amount of de facto financial regulation comes not from democratically elected governments, but from companies that gate-keep access to the databases wher…

Pornhub was cut off for failing to police child pornography. Why would you want to participate in a financial system that was incapable of excluding evildoers?

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#56
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you even talking about? Who owns what has always been available to everyone, that's how land title deeds work .

Do they work that way in rural Africa?

If no one knows if you own something, then you don't own it. Literally the entire concept of "ownership" it based on socialized distribution of that information.

Which means anyone within range of an item for ownership rights to matter, by definition, is either aware of your claim by some means and respecting it, or unaware and you now get to see how good your legal or kinetic protections of it are.

EDIT: The parent poster is possibly referring to an entirely different problem - many underdeveloped nations have antiquated automation for their land title systems, which makes proving ownership difficult due to a lack of computerization. This is a problem for the owners occupying the land, because they can't prove to third parties this claim is legal and thus use it as collateral for seeking lines of credit.

One of the interesting things the Bush Jr. admin of all things spearheaded was a project which looked at funding and helping update these systems in some nations as a means of economic development.

But of course, blockchain here is still useless. The problem isn't that the ledger of ownership is "secret" (which doesn't make any sense) it's that it can't be verified because the record keeping is manual. Once again, "blockchain" fixes nothing that a central database wouldn't do faster, cheaper and better.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#57
post #55
post #52

The utility of decentralized blockchains is that they facilitate permissionless financial innovation. Yes, that means "regulatory arbitrage". But not just circumventing the law, more importantly, circumventing the de facto law of corporate gatekeepers. A substantial amount of de facto financial regulation comes not from democratically elected governments, but from companies that gate-keep access to the databases wher…

Pornhub was cut off for failing to police child pornography. Why would you want to participate in a financial system that was incapable of excluding evildoers?

Look, I dislike crypto as much as the next guy, but I must have missed the memo. Are evildoers not perfectly capable of participating in the current financial system?

https://www.thelocal.ch/20150208/hsbc-swiss-bank-helped-terr...

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/how-the--war-on-terror...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico...

Let’s also ignore all the shadiness that the Russian Oligarchs, oil shieks, Bibi, Berlosconi all seem to engage in and yet seemingly have no limit to the financial systems. The belief that our financial system excludes evildoers is a nice fantasy that I haven’t seen be rooted in reality.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#58
post #55
post #52

The utility of decentralized blockchains is that they facilitate permissionless financial innovation. Yes, that means "regulatory arbitrage". But not just circumventing the law, more importantly, circumventing the de facto law of corporate gatekeepers. A substantial amount of de facto financial regulation comes not from democratically elected governments, but from companies that gate-keep access to the databases wher…

Pornhub was cut off for failing to police child pornography. Why would you want to participate in a financial system that was incapable of excluding evildoers?

That should be dealt with by the justice system, not some corporations.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#59

> He named a region in Asia and explained that the small farmers there mark their landholdings carefully, but then the annual floods sometimes wash the markers away. Then unscrupulous larger landowners use the absence of markers to cut away at the smallholdings of the poorest. “But if the boundary markers were on the blockchain,” he said, “they wouldn’t be able to do that, would they?” The developed world is distingu…

The technology here is the least of that small shareholder's problems. To register that land, they need to convince a corruptible human to accept their application, get another corruptible human to enter the data correctly in the database and get a third corruptible human to give them an authentic certificate proving that their land holding has been registered. You can already see three points where this can be trivi…

> Finally and most fundamentally, a land registry is by nature a centralized registry of holdings with a legal monopoly. Why on earth would you need to use a blockchain here, when an append-only database does the same job?

Records within an append-only database running on a central server can be altered or deleted by whomever has the root password to that server.

The only way to guard against that risk is to replicate and publicize the data, make sure all data modifications are cryptographically signed and valid according the logic of the application, and incorporate into each new version of the data a hash of prior versions of the data, in order to guard against data deletions. In other words, to implement a blockchain.

> The hard part, you see, is defending their property rights. Local bigwig casually stomps on their land, now they need to convince the corruptible police to investigate (good luck with that when they're on the bigwig's payroll), find a lawyer willing to take this on (in exchange for what?), get the corruptible land rights registry to verify their claim, get a corruptible judge to give a true verdict, and then convince that corruptible police to carry out the verdict. If you're a poor subsistence farmer, it's nearly impossible to navigate this morass, and blockchain solves precisely zero of these problems.

You have described a horribly corrupt and oppressive society. It's not what most of the developing world looks like. You are right that there is unlikely to be a technical solution to this level of oppression, except that it would be harder to implement in the first place in a society where property records were managed via a blockchain.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#60
post #24

I had a real experience that perfectly reflects the research presented here (safer ledgers useful, blockchains are not). I accidentally got wrapped up in a project to automate some HR functions, and the product manager demanded that it must be blockchain because blockchains are the future. It turns out that append-only databases are well-suited for HR records, and (especially when dealing with things like background…

Blockchains are great for one-thing... guarantee that data is being appended and never modified. When you want to display a record, you can aggregate the data historically and allow people to see changes and attribute them to users and time but you can always see what was originally added. However that's kinda risky for HR because anything committed to that DB will be there... forever!

That's not the full story, certificate transparency logs (and many other applications) achieve that without using a blockchain.
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