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Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

towardsdatascience.com

31–40 of 84 posts

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#31

It's a great article and there is probably a lot of truth to it but I suspect people who are constantly told how great they are are actually more likely to be jerks. I don't think beauty / intelligence are entirely uncorrelated with niceness to begin with.

> It's a great article and there is probably a lot of truth to it but I suspect people who are constantly told how great they are are actually more likely to be jerks.

They can both be true. The selection process is enough to explain a negative correlation regardless of whether the true correlation is negative, zero, or strongly positive.

Separately, it's very possible for a girl who naturally has 40 attractiveness points and 15 personality points, but who's happy dating men who only demand 30 points from their partners, to lower her expressed personality from +15 to -10. This would be a causative influence of high attractiveness (interacting with low ambition) on personality.

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#32

An example I like is in basketball. A lot of tall players aren't good shooters. People wonder why, like are they launching the ball too high and messing up the angle? Are their hands too big to precisely control the ball? Are they lazy and not practicing? Seems more likely to be this same paradox - if you're short and can't shoot, you never make it to the NBA.

The NBA is at the top right of the graph (for basketball skills) so you shouldn't see any such weird anomaly there. Suspect its actually just a biological thing that your hand eye coordination worsens at the 'extreme' heights

I've also heard that since it's necessary to arc the shot a reasonable amount for the ball to go in (or else it will hit the rim and bounce away), being shorter than the hoop can actually be an advantage. If the hoop is above you, the ball already has to travel vertically to be able to get there in the first place, but if you're close to the same height, you have to throw it relatively higher to achieve a good arc. It tends to be harder to aim at something if you need to add extra height before hitting it; the angle and speed needed to accurately throw a ball at a target is easier to "calculate" with hand/eye coordination if you throw directly at it rather than trying to throw the ball up in the air and have it hit the target on the way down.

That said, it still seems reasonable that if you're going to be paid millions of dollars a year to throw a ball in a hole, it wouldn't be crazy to be expected to practice and get good enough not to miss if literally no one is trying to block you (e.g. free throws). I guess that if you're good enough at the other skills, it still helps your team win enough to sign you even if you don't get good at that, but it still feels like fairly low hanging fruit...

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#33
post #6

> Get unlimited access to data science stories from industry leaders on Medium. cant read this article without "upgrading". no i dont want to "upgrade". can we downrank Medium until they stop doing bullshit like this? (yes towardsdatascience is a well known data publication, would love to push them gently into moving off medium)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bypass-paywal...

Can any HNers vouch for this add-on? Is there any compromise for privacy?

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's little solid evidence for inherited mental illness > Even schizophrenia, which is among the most heritable of all mental disorders, appears to have a heritability of between 70 and 90% as estimated by twin designs (Mulle, 2012), leaving room for still undetermined environmental influences. You have set the bar high.

You can think of those percentages less like “there is only 10-30% left to explain” and more like “we can explain most of it we think but we have no idea how these complex factors interact” They basically look at fraternal and identical twins and assume (because their environments are otherwise probably close) that any differences in outcome are heritable. It’s a huge leap of faith.

> They basically look at fraternal and identical twins and assume (because their environments are otherwise probably close) that any differences in outcome are heritable. It’s a huge leap of faith.

You’re making it sound like the researchers are idiots who have never thought about how their tools might not be measuring what they hope they are.

As well as identical/fraternal twins you can also look at other sorts of relatedness, e.g. half siblings are on average as related as first cousins and on average you’re as closely related to each parent as each full sibling. Psychological traits are inherited like height is, not like language is[1]. Mental illness is highly heritable though the expression varies[2].

As a parallel line of evidence to confirm classical twin studies and those based on degrees of shared ancestry cheap genetic testing has allowed testing how closely people are related. So you don’t have to assume a sibling shares 50% of their genes. You can see if they’re 73% similar or 41%. Or you can take people who have no known shared recent ancestry and see how similar they are on the trait of interest.

To the best of my knowledge behaviour genetics is holding up. For psychological traits genetics is more powerful than developmental noise.

[1]> Genetic Influence on Human Psychological Traits

> There is now a large body of evidence that supports the conclusion that individual differences in most, if not all, reliably measured psychological traits, normal and abnormal, are substantively influenced by genetic factors. This fact has important implications for research and theory building in psychology, as evidence of genetic influence unleashes a cascade of questions regarding the sources of variance in such traits. A brief list of those questions is provided, and representative findings regarding genetic and environmental influences are presented for the domains of personality, intelligence, psycho- logical interests, psychiatric illnesses, and social attitudes. These findings are consistent with those reported for the traits of other species and for many human physical traits, suggesting that they may represent a general biological phenomenon.

https://utahpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/bouchard.0...

[2]> The p factor: genetic analyses support a general dimension of psychopathology in childhood and adolescence

> Diverse forms of psychopathology generally load on a common p factor, which is highly heritable. There are substantial genetic influences on the stability of p across childhood. Our analyses indicate genetic overlap between general risk for psychiatric disorders in adulthood and p in childhood, even as young as age 7.

https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/...

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#35

An example I like is in basketball. A lot of tall players aren't good shooters. People wonder why, like are they launching the ball too high and messing up the angle? Are their hands too big to precisely control the ball? Are they lazy and not practicing? Seems more likely to be this same paradox - if you're short and can't shoot, you never make it to the NBA.

Eh that sounds reasonable but I’m not sure it holds for the NBA. Maybe the college game where the overall skill level and stakes are lower. The flaw in that reasoning is it assumes that players stop developing once they reach the league. Especially in the modern NBA, where players are pushed very hard to get out from the post and shoot. Being unable to shoot puts a limit on a players career, even at 7+ feet. There’s…

17% of Americans that are over 7' are or have been in the NBA.

They only need to be better than a few dozen or hundreds of others at the required skills. The average 7 footer in the NBA is a way better shooter than the average player in the general population and probably better than any average college player. But shooting skill is inversely proportional to height in the NBA for the exact reason the GP stated.

To be something like 6'3'' or shorter in the NBA means you need to be an insane outlier in other skills, better than literally millions of others at your height and hundreds of thousands with your general athleticism.

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. Selling yourself doesn't require self-deception. Even if you were deceiving others in order to sell yourself that doesn't require you to be deceiving yourself.

> Even if you were deceiving others in order to sell yourself that doesn't require you to be deceiving yourself. The self-deception assumption is charitable . Of course it's also possible to just be a pathological liar; the author is being polite.

It’s also possible to be good at what you do and be an effective communicator of that ability. I wouldn’t read more into it than what’s there.

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#37

It's a great article and there is probably a lot of truth to it but I suspect people who are constantly told how great they are are actually more likely to be jerks. I don't think beauty / intelligence are entirely uncorrelated with niceness to begin with.

Here’s a thought, it’s possible to be disagreeable without being ignorant of the fact or malicious. Being blunt or assertive can be misinterpreted as being mean but meanness involves some intent to harm.

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. Selling yourself doesn't require self-deception. Even if you were deceiving others in order to sell yourself that doesn't require you to be deceiving yourself.

> Even if you were deceiving others in order to sell yourself that doesn't require you to be deceiving yourself. The self-deception assumption is charitable . Of course it's also possible to just be a pathological liar; the author is being polite.

Or you could be great at selling yourself honestly. It also doesn't really seem polite to tell people they are the true imposters because they are good at something.

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#39

When you start off an article with a pop-science fallacy, it can color the rest of the article in a negative light: > "...and mutational load affects both facial symmetry and mental illness." There's little solid evidence for inherited mental illness, not excluding severe neuro-developmental abnormalities (which may also have environmental causes such as teratogen exposure), in fact there aren't even any solid indepe…

> There's little solid evidence for inherited mental illness A quick web search seems to suggest that ADHD, depression, and autism are all known to run in families?

Is it "mental illness" or is it acting out? Is it brain issues or behavioral issues that are the problem?

We have known for millennia that original sin is carried and transmitted by everyone in the human race. John Bradshaw posited the thesis that shame is carried in families, across generations. We all know that cycles of abuse happen again and again, passed father to son, mother to daughter, uncle to niece.

Psychiatrists flail about and disclaim any knowledge about the genesis of "mental illness". But we know the causes. The causes are preventable, but sometimes the cost of prevention is everything we hold dear.

Re: Brilliant jerks, crazy hotties, and other artifacts of range restriction (2019)

#40
At the risk of breaking the rule against complaining about "tangential annoyances", I really dislike how Medium decrements the metered paywall as soon as the page loads, rather than letting the user decide if s/he is interested in actually reading the content. Sometimes you open a page without even knowing that it comes from this site (people sometimes host a blog on Medium under a custom domain).
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