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$477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

marketwatch.com

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Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#231

Post by guiriduro »

denton-scratch wrote: post #228
denton-scratch wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article seems to hint that the Delaware bankruptcy case might be complicated by the Bahamian regulator's New York bankruptcy case. It looks like they're implying collusion beteen SBF and the Bahamian regulator.

(sorry, replying to self) I have to say I find the idea of a "Bahamian regulator" amusing, or at least ironic. People don't put their wealth and companies in the Bahamas because of their reputation for excellent regulation.

But they might if, apart from turning a blind eye to many things, the same regulator might be prevailed on to collude in seizing/preventing other seizure of their assets (by less favorable jurisdictions), for uh "safekeeping" under Bahamian 'justice'... of course.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#232

Post by xg15 »

Finance noob here, and purely out of couriosity, but could someone explain what the actual legal status of FTX' deposits is now?

From what I got, crypto exchanges spend a lot of effort to not be banks in a legal sense, so the special protections for customer deposits with traditional banking don't apply - the deposits are technically owned by FTX, not the customers.

On the other hand, customers do appear to have some claims in the bankruptcy proceedings, enough that the SEC seized the funds. So it's not just "you pay me, I make number go up" either.

Were the deposits just treated like loans to FTX?

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#233

Post by lancesells »

VLM wrote: post #223
dahdum wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s rational, he’s just using a different set of ethics. In the Vox interview he says he’s trying to win a jurisdictional battle with Delaware, this just part of that fight.

Something I've been thinking about WRT SBF and online ethics, is if someone's true devotion is to preserving shareholder value, etc, if you know "interesting things" have happened and been covered up for a long time, lying on twitter to people who mostly are uninvolved and don't care, might be seen as a legal obligation, not a character flaw. He had an "out" which was the companies business model was to purchase regu…

> So he is legally obligated as an officer of his company to lie on twitter to keep the charade running long enough to pay off for the investors.

Please point me to this law.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#234

Post by fortran77 »

pibechorro wrote: post #180
woodruffw wrote: post #19

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how ? Was the Bahamas' SEC holding its own copies of FTX's keys? I thought the entire point of these schemes was that this kind of seizure-by-force wasn't possible (absent exploits or insiders).

Ftx is not crypto. its an exchange no different than paypal. Not your keys, not your crypto.

Well then, I guess this means this "crypto" thing is just fine, safe, and a good place to put all my wealth.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#236

Post by dathinab »

ninth_ant wrote: post #133
dathinab wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [..] accused Bankman-Fried of attempting to undermine their efforts [..] by pushing the second bankruptcy case if that is true they might have very well had reason to lie until the bankruptcy proceedings in the Bahamas have started successfully/maybe some under the table agreements where completed. I wouldn't be surprised if they have some deal with the Bahamian government giving them some benefit for allowing the…

> Like them not knowing that the transaction was a asset seizure in context of the bankruptcy proceeding is a possibility as crazy as it might sound. This would _also_ imply that whoever internal to FTX that authorized the asset transfer for siezure didn't tell anyone and covered their tracks well enough that SBF didn't know about it. I mean, it's possible? But seems more straightforward that SBF was simply lying in…

an internal person being tricked into a bad transaction counts as being hacked

an internal person doing a bad transaction and then bring unreachable counts as being hacked

etc.

and this didn't even account for absurd degrees of internal miscommunication and misunderstand I have seen in some companies

so it doesn't imply what you are saying

and like I said likely he lied, but something being likely doesn't mean there aren't other options

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#237

Post by Vespasian »

luckylion wrote: post #218
Vespasian wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like an operational Challenge but with billions on the line people will consider it. Perhaps one or two if the multisig holders are already on board and will "reassure" the others that everything is fine. Or one government (like the US) coordinates with others to get it done.

Sure, but that's a tall order. The US cooperating with e.g. China, Russia and the EU to get everyone? Or the US running covert ops in China, Russia and the EU to take the money themselves? Both are a very different situation than the US simply sending a cop to some address and asking the person living there to please come with them to the station. For criminals, it'll also be a huge operation, and it'll come with ins…

There might be a sweet spot where the payoff is large but the notority is low (think about one criminal organization going after the other).

Unless there are street fights, people will not care that much.

Or perhaps political opponents in unstable countries.

On the government side the USs reach is far and criminals are not always willing (or able) to go beyond it. Maybe coordinating with China won't happen, but let's say Japan, mexico and 2 EU countries is not out of the ordinary.

There are busts happening almost every year on that scale

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#238

Post by alvah »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #97
devmunchies wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using people You mean violence. Physical force. In that context, the means is irrelevant and pedantic.

So why specify guns? Especially when they're so rarely used in situations like this.

It’s a widely-used aphorism for governments’ monopoly on violence, which, as others have pointed out, is ultimately how governments get people to do things they otherwise wouldn’t do.
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