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Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

trevorklee.substack.com

341–350 of 387 posts

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a practical reality of the "we keep old people alive too long" category.

How old should people be allowed to get? Why are the old less valuable to you? A life is a life, is it not?

It’s more about health and quality of life vs our capabilities to delay the inevitable. If you’re unfamiliar with the topic there’s plenty of information out there about how much money is spent and now low quality of life is commonly enough in the final few years.

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#342
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a practical reality of the "we keep old people alive too long" category.

I’m old and statements like this are… interesting

We all will be old one day, if lucky. My comment was not about you because you happen to be old right now. But are you unfamiliar with typical end of life care in the US? Where the last few years is a constant stream of hospitalizations, rehabilitation, etc with no quality of life and no tangible benefit but a very substantial cost? I find that concept… interesting… as in, I don’t like paying the cost and I don’t intend on participating in it when my time comes. I think this feeling is growing with younger generations because we’ve witnessed what older generations are subjecting themselves and their families to.

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree with you on a distaste for the foolishness of central planning, lLet me provide an alternative perspective. A huge proportion of US physicians are already mediocre; a shocking number are bad. (Source: I am a physician.) Given this, I am concerned that further relaxation of standards in an effort to train more doctors won't lead to better outcomes.

Not making American doctors do 4-years of an undergraduate "premed" degree will not meaningfully lower standards. Nor will creating more residency slots. We don't need better outcomes. We will happily take the existing outcomes but cheaper.

Is the point you're making here that removing the "premed" undergraduate degree (which doesn't exist) will somehow lead to reduced healthcare costs?

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#344
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m old and statements like this are… interesting

We all will be old one day, if lucky. My comment was not about you because you happen to be old right now. But are you unfamiliar with typical end of life care in the US? Where the last few years is a constant stream of hospitalizations, rehabilitation, etc with no quality of life and no tangible benefit but a very substantial cost? I find that concept… interesting… as in, I don’t like paying the cost and I don’t int…

I’m familiar with all those issues and have been for years. Have taken both parents through agonizing deaths. Doesn’t make comments like yours less unsettling.

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#345
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should check out The Resident. The first several seasons are about the doctor invested in a device that is a fraud, a private equity group buying the hospital, it eventually failing. Chicago MD has some of the aspects you mention, especially overloaded, drug abuse, blame, police interactions. New Amsterdam attacks it by the main character trying to solve the problems and running into bureaucracy.

Are all of these well-written shows? They all look terrible in the descriptions but I’m hoping I’m wrong.

I rank New Amsterdam and the Resident better for the hospital politics; Chicago MD is more short episode drama (though does touch on mental health and social services more.

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#346
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You thought it wasn’t real as in you though everyone was an actor in a fake hospital building or you thought you were in a whole nother plane of existence?

Interesting question ... plane of existence. I was hearing voices that convinced me I was not where I thought I was, it was an illusion of sorts and it was best to leave. Immediately. For reasons unclear to me.

I mean where did you even expect to go if you were inside an illusion? Another illusion?

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - my wife is a physician and she routinely describes how well meaning family members make care harder for their loved ones by trying too hard in the wrong ways. Requesting more care doesn’t get you better care - “squeaky wheel gets the grease” doesn’t really apply in many situations.

I have heard an equal number of stories that are exactly opposite. Only through aggressive, pushy "squeaky wheel" behaviour was someone able to get the correct care.

My dad definitely got better care because both my brother and were assertive in our advocacy, but my sister’s aggressive, undirected badgering didn’t help at all.

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#348
post #325
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that they’re more open to believing that anything might work cuts both ways :)

I think when dealing with chronic issues, it might be better to optimize for luck. [0] A little ridiculousness like homeopathy might be worth it to find the thing that actually works. [0] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/fFY2HeC9i2Tx8FEnK/luck-based...

Thank you for this link. Well written and mirrors a lot of my experiences though I am still looking for my 'miracle cure'. I think this could be helpful for sharing with other people in my life who don't understand why someone would stray from an empirically/scientifically sanctioned approach.

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed recently that there are people out there who simply can't accurately listen to others and repeat back what they say. It's not about being stressed for time, the skill is just not there. You say ABC, they write CBD, and they have no idea it's not the same thing.

Add to that the people who reply to an email or other message without providing any response to the questions it explicitly poses.

I’ve found numbered lists of short questions helps a lot.

But with some people definitely only ask 1 question per email.

Re: Things I've noticed while visiting the ICU

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree with you on a distaste for the foolishness of central planning, lLet me provide an alternative perspective. A huge proportion of US physicians are already mediocre; a shocking number are bad. (Source: I am a physician.) Given this, I am concerned that further relaxation of standards in an effort to train more doctors won't lead to better outcomes.

Not making American doctors do 4-years of an undergraduate "premed" degree will not meaningfully lower standards. Nor will creating more residency slots. We don't need better outcomes. We will happily take the existing outcomes but cheaper.

It’s unclear to me how removing the requirement for an undergraduate degree (side note, it is not actually required at many or most US medical schools) will lower healthcare costs.
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