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My ADHD founder toolbox

hypatia.ca

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Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#381

Post by jethro_tell »

RHSman2 wrote: post #376
jethro_tell wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol, I don't think I take enough of anything to do things I don't want to or shouldn't do. This has helped me to do the things that I want to do. It more helps on the task level and less the overarching job level.

It is so interesting how it manifests differently by different people. I still don’t subscribe to ‘it’s all ADHD’ where everything gets lumped into this block of behavioral reasoning. I think it’s at an OS level but I think we are just a little more sensitive than non neurodivergents. And that comes with some huge benefits as well as negatives.

No, part of the thing that has made this more successful than when I was a kid is I have spent quite a bit of time working on things like maintaining focus, prioritizing, time management, maintaining healthy sleep patterns. Additionally, I understand what is and isn't ADHD and what can be fixed with a stimulant. If you try to fix all your problems that way, it's not going to work.

When I was young, it was just 'here take this'. No help with understand what was happening or how to work on it. And I think that's a bad place to be.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#382

Post by OkayPhysicist »

nicbou wrote: post #163
baby wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a noob, can you guys give me an idea of what it is to live with ADHD? My understanding is that focus is a spectrum and different people are on different spots on that spectrum. I always imagine that something becomes a condition and gets a name (like ADHD) once it becomes an issue in your life and prevents you from functioning in society. When I hear that you're a staff engineer it sorts of tells me that it's not…

It's a tough one, because the symptoms are relatable to most ("isn't that everybody?"). They're just more intense than for most, and come with unexpected "features" like executive disfunction. The intensity also varies from a person to another, and the severity depends on a person's lifestyle. The lack of focus is a lure, an oversimplification. It's not just "I can't focus on something I don't like to do". It's more…

I think for outreach, hammering on executive disfunction is the best way to go. It's the most alien to the neurotypical, and it most clearly paints ADHD as a disability, rather than a mere personality trait. And rather than talking about failing to focus on things you don't want to do, talk about failing to focus on things you want to do, but simply fail to produce incremental enough satisfaction to remain focused on. Like, before I got medicated, I would want to watch a movie. I would enjoy watching a movie. But you better bet I'd be getting up, checking my phone, going to the restroom out of sheer restlessness, etc, instead of doing the thing I wanted to be doing: watching the damn movie.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#383

Post by OkayPhysicist »

ChadNauseam wrote: post #310
hypatiadotca wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh jeez definitely look into the potential side effects of finasteride if you haven’t already. ADHD meds have nothing on it, side effect wise.

As someone on both this is not true ime. finasteride has had no side effects for me, while adderall makes me irritable and paranoid when it wears off, not to mention the insomnia it causes.

For what it's worth, stimulants' effect on sleep varies a lot from person to person. I definitely know people who struggled with insomnia from amphetamines, especially when their dose was too high, but for me and others I've talked to, it let me lay down and choose to sleep, which as someone who had suffered from insomnia most of my life, was a godsend.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#384

Post by eyelidlessness »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #379
eyelidlessness wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treatment with stimulants doesn’t treat deficiencies of stimulants. This is immediately obvious with patients who actually benefit from the meds, because they’re generally not stimulated by them. Treatment with many chemicals doesn’t treat deficiencies of those chemicals. In the case of stimulants for ADHD, they help regulate dopamine and norepinephrine intake. In practical terms, results of successful treatment incl…

Medications saved my life as well. That is not the point. The point is do you keep taking them and not look for the nutritional answer to your problem. If a B6 deficiency cured your ADHD would you still want to take stimulants?

> If a B6 deficiency cured your ADHD would you still want to take stimulants?

Assuming you mean “if treating a B6 deficiency”, and assuming I had strong expectations that I could expect a cure, I’d consider giving it a try. I’d be cautious about any transition, as it could mean either significant side effects while still taking stimulants, or significant regression without them if the B6 treatment doesn’t work as hoped.

But I don’t even have a strong expectation that I could expect equivalent or better management. The study you linked was conducted with children, and the conclusions based on observations of children’s behavior. Maybe that’s a good indicator that it’s helpful, but I have no clue. I wasn’t diagnosed as a child, my ADHD was noticeable to one adult in my adulthood enough to mention it, and my experienced symptoms are much closer to autism (again as experienced by adults, not as behavior observed in children, although those diverge much less for me). But the things mentioned improving in the study are very much not what I’ve struggled with having ADHD as an adult, nor things for which I sought diagnosis or treatment.

The way diagnosis and treatment saved my life was helping me manage crippling anxiety and helping me make chronic depression manageable. It’s possible that exploring a nutritional deficiency none of my doctors have found with supplements no one has studied for adult ADHD… it’s possible that would benefit me. It’s a very high risk proposition given I have meds which work for me and which present no side effects so negative I’d reconsider.

Moreover I haven’t had a single medical professional raise this possibility and with good reason. My treatment is working. Even if an alternative treatment might be promising… why would any responsible doctor propose disrupting a persistently successful treatment plan?

I don’t know why you’re so motivated to disabuse me of my effective medication, but you’ll have to do better than showing a study which made children more tolerable. I credit my life to the meds that I take now, and there’s very very little I could fault them for. Asking me to reconsider that is asking an AWFUL lot.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#385

Post by elcritch »

doix wrote: post #207
elcritch wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless of anything else, I think the key thing to remember about ADHD is that you do not need to be a high-performing human being, at all, in life. You will forget things and get distracted and not get as much done. So what. You are still intelligent and caring and dedicated and responsible and a hard worker. Exactly! I was diagnosed later in life by which time I had experienced a significant amount of trauma e…

How did you get diagnosed? Do you feel like it was worth going through the process? A lot of what you said resonates with me... > Being constantly criticized because you forget what often amounts to trivial things is one of the worse "symptoms" I spent a lot of effort removing "trivial" things from my day to day life. I have a rule of ever only doing a single "life admin" thing per day, ideally 0. A lot of people act…

Yes, the process was extremely valuable for me since I didn't know what was "wrong" but knew there was something. I looked up a psychiatrist experienced with diagnosis who recommended a professional IQ exam. There are very clear statistically significant differences associated with ADHD, which helped me accept "adhd" as a real thing. That part alone was worth it and the evidence was pretty undeniable.

I went back for a PhD program and got a diagnosis from the health services there, along with some CBT therapy.

I'd recommend going to a psychiatrist/ therapist with a good track record of diagnosing and treating adhd. Many doctors, even psychiatrists, are dangerously under-versed in adhd or even believe its fake.

haha and I feel the bit about cognitive loading.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#386

Post by hirvi74 »

khios wrote: post #367
hirvi74 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, I feel like I could fall asleep, but I know I couldn't if I tried.

Have you tried? I can take a nap no problem on them. I would even say that they greatly help me falling asleep!

I have tried, and I cannot. They help me fall asleep if I time the crash correctly, but other than I will have trouble falling asleep. If I stop taking them, then I have trouble falling asleep, so I am kind of in a catch-22 lol.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#387

Post by hirvi74 »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #370
hirvi74 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, I feel like I could fall asleep, but I know I couldn't if I tried.

You might be surprised. My first prescribing doctor emphasized that an appropriate dosage wouldn’t disrupt sleep and might even improve ability to get to sleep. He wasn’t right about several other things, but on this he was exactly right. So much so that early on I took a morning nap about an hour after meds kicked in because I couldn’t stay awake . Now with a higher dose I don’t get so lethargic, but I certainly cou…

I guess I am on the wrong dosage then, because when they are in full effect, there is no way I could fall asleep. Stimulants do wonders for my hyperactivity e.g. I turn from Ace Ventura to being able to sit in an office. However, I would never say they calm me down in a mental sense. In fact, they kind of tend to do the opposite sometimes.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#388

Post by hirvi74 »

sph wrote: post #356
hirvi74 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it took at least 3 days for the medication to clear your system.

The lessened effect is due to your body getting used to having increased levels of dopamine and norepinephrine, so stops producing as much. The fact that the medication is out doesn't make your dopaminergic system more sensitive by itself. It might take a while.

I've been on the medications for almost a decade now, so when I take a weekend off, then I am basically useless by Monday when I start them again. I swear it takes days from them to start working again every time I take a break.

So, my dopaminergic system probably has holes burned through it.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#389

Post by FollowingTheDao »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #384
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medications saved my life as well. That is not the point. The point is do you keep taking them and not look for the nutritional answer to your problem. If a B6 deficiency cured your ADHD would you still want to take stimulants?

> If a B6 deficiency cured your ADHD would you still want to take stimulants? Assuming you mean “if treating a B6 deficiency”, and assuming I had strong expectations that I could expect a cure , I’d consider giving it a try. I’d be cautious about any transition, as it could mean either significant side effects while still taking stimulants, or significant regression without them if the B6 treatment doesn’t work as ho…

You make me assumption that I’m trying to disabuse you of taking your medication. I’m not. I don’t care, take it if you want. But by not being open to other methods of treatment, you aredisabusing people of that choice.

You go on and on about how you don’t think it would work, but have you ever had your B6 level tested never mind your red blood cell B6 levels?

I get it, you don’t care, you found a treatment that works, even though that treatment is not curing the underlying disorder. It’s just a treatment. I get it it works, until it doesn’t. I’ve been working with people with new disorders for 25 years and I’ve seen it over and over again.

So I’m not asking you to stop taking anything I’m asking you to keep an open mind which you seem to not be able to do. That’s OK.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#390

Post by sph »

hirvi74 wrote: post #388
sph wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lessened effect is due to your body getting used to having increased levels of dopamine and norepinephrine, so stops producing as much. The fact that the medication is out doesn't make your dopaminergic system more sensitive by itself. It might take a while.

I've been on the medications for almost a decade now, so when I take a weekend off, then I am basically useless by Monday when I start them again. I swear it takes days from them to start working again every time I take a break. So, my dopaminergic system probably has holes burned through it.

Yes, I have certainly noticed it takes a few days for the full effect to ramp up as well. And there seems to be residual effect for about 12 hours after the last dose, though in general the peak effect lasts about 4 hours for me (on lisdexamphetamine)
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