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$477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

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Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#141

Post by initplus »

phire wrote: post #16
initplus wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTX chose to file for bankruptcy in America. There is a jurisdictional dispute between the US and the Bahamian court over where the bankruptcy proceedings should take place. In my view FTX chose to incorporate in the Bahama's for a reason, and that reason wasn't the transparency and integrity of the Bahamian legal system.

They didn't incorporate in the Bahamas. They incorporated in "Antigua and Barbuda", which is a very seperate country. The only relationship FTX has with Bahamas, is the location of their headcounters, and a single wholly-owned subsidiary that probably didn't hold much in the way of funds.

I believe the Bahaman incorporated entity is "FTX Digital Markets Ltd" https://bfsb-bahamas.com/providers/name/ftx-digital-markets-...

This is the entity (alongside the physical presence of SBF) by which the Bahamas are arguing they have jurisdiction over the FTX bankruptcy proceedings.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#142

Post by Dylan16807 »

lazide wrote: post #106
Dylan16807 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why specify guns? Especially when they're so rarely used in situations like this.

Used? Sure. You don’t need to use it when everyone knows what will happen. The presence is enough 99% of the time. Or are you saying cops don’t have real pistols in their holsters, and agents just pretend to be armed on those raids?

A white collar raid doesn't need to bring guns.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#143

Post by [deleted] »

HWR_14 wrote: post #129
yanderekko wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just dodging the key question. Obviously the government has some rationale other than that they're taking it because they can. The problem is that they're still taking money that's owned by someone else, even if it's controlled by SBF. I'm sure there are strong international norms if not laws against a sovereign power directing a foreign financial actor to repay some sort of debt by pilfering client deposits,…

I don't think the idea is that the Bahamas will keep the crypto. It took it because it's a safe holder of it. It can get it back at some rate once the lawsuits go through. Certainly, I would feel more confident getting my money back from a reasonable government than SBF.

[deleted]

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#144

Post by initplus »

HWR_14 wrote: post #129
yanderekko wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just dodging the key question. Obviously the government has some rationale other than that they're taking it because they can. The problem is that they're still taking money that's owned by someone else, even if it's controlled by SBF. I'm sure there are strong international norms if not laws against a sovereign power directing a foreign financial actor to repay some sort of debt by pilfering client deposits,…

I don't think the idea is that the Bahamas will keep the crypto. It took it because it's a safe holder of it. It can get it back at some rate once the lawsuits go through. Certainly, I would feel more confident getting my money back from a reasonable government than SBF.

The alternative isn't SBF keeping the funds. It's the funds going through the US bankruptcy proceedings alongside the rest of FTX's assets.

SBF chose to operate out of the Bahamas because of their lax legal structure. The fact that he claimed for days this was a hack makes this look like a failed attempt at buying his freedom. I have much more faith in the integrity of the US bankruptcy process than whatever nonsense is going to happen in the Bahamas...

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#146

Post by walrus01 »

woodruffw wrote: post #19

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how ? Was the Bahamas' SEC holding its own copies of FTX's keys? I thought the entire point of these schemes was that this kind of seizure-by-force wasn't possible (absent exploits or insiders).

Presumably Bahamian law enforcement officials in possession of the court order offered the persons in possession of the keys the choice between making the transfer or going to Bahamian prison for contempt.

Ultimately, if you foul things up enough in whatever jurisdiction you happen to be physically located in, men with guns will come to compell you to do something.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#147

Post by DeWilde »

wutheringh wrote: post #145
DeWilde wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stealing other people's money might be the more likely reason as humans tend to be very sensitive about this.

Quoted post unavailable.

Maybe, but that notion of theft seems better than to live in a world where anyone can barge up to you and, for example, take your meal, leaving you hungry. Would you agree?

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#148

Post by philwelch »

yanderekko wrote: post #56
sanxiyn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bahamian government is seizing assets "to protect the interests of clients or customers".

That's just dodging the key question. Obviously the government has some rationale other than that they're taking it because they can. The problem is that they're still taking money that's owned by someone else, even if it's controlled by SBF. I'm sure there are strong international norms if not laws against a sovereign power directing a foreign financial actor to repay some sort of debt by pilfering client deposits,…

I suspect that if you deposit 100 ETH at FTX, legally, you no longer own the 100 ETH. Instead, you own an IOU from FTX stating that FTX owes you 100 ETH. FTX owns the ETH.

In an ideal world, an IOU from FTX for the amount of 100 ETH would be worth 100 ETH. Unfortunately, FTX is insolvent and bankrupt. The only thing the bankruptcy court can do is divide up FTX’s assets and distribute whatever FTX does have to their creditors. That is naturally going to entail taking possession of those assets.

This used to be a risk even with banks, and a lot of people during the Great Depression lost the money they had in the bank due to bank insolvency. The solution to this problem was the FDIC. If you have an American bank account, not only do you have an IOU from the bank for the number of dollars you have in that account, you also have an insurance policy from the FDIC that will pay you the value of the account (up to a specific limit) if the bank is unable to do so. And if the FDIC isn’t good for the money, that would mean the US government has defaulted on their debt, which probably means it’s the end of days, your dollars would have been worthless anyway, and you’re just going to have to get by on whatever canned food, water purification tablets, and ammunition you’ve managed to stockpile in your house until the world re-stabilizes into whatever cyberpunk dystopia comes after the collapse of the United States.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#149

Post by thaumasiotes »

DuskStar wrote: post #105
causi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was run by a dude who plays League of Legends on conference calls and openly encourages his employees to take amphetamines to increase their job performance.

> dude who plays League of Legends A dude who plays LoL badly . Embarrassingly badly for his number of games.

That is weird. If you're going to make League of Legends such a big part of your public image, you'd think you'd put at least a little bit of effort into it.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#150

Post by concordDance »

hestefisk wrote: post #117
throwaway9980 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns. Guns are how. Guns are how governments achieve their objectives. There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns.

People with guns. Pls respect gender equality.

It's pretty much just men enforcing court orders, particularly in the Bahamas.

Side note: its interesting how "men" has gone from sometimes being gender neutral to being almost exclusively male and how "man" has gone most of the way down the same path.

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