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$477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

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131–140 of 243 posts

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The announcement was from the new FTX under emergency CEO Ray, not the old FTX under SBF. And the Bahamas claims that the specific FTX company that did the transfers, FTX Digital Assets, was not a part of the bankruptcy proceedings and that SBF was still its CEO. Finally, new-FTX did not say they were "hacked", only that the transfers were not authorized by them.

SBF straight up said multiple times it was a hack in his leaked talks with a vix reporter many days alter

> his leaked talks with a vix reporter

I'm pretty sure when you give an on the record interview, and that gets published, it's not a "leak".

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns. Guns are how. Guns are how governments achieve their objectives. There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns.

> There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns. On the contrary. It's the only case where maths can defend vs men with guns. Multi sig schemes spread over different people over several continents make the "men with guns" thing very difficult. Or multisig but m-out-of-n, with a dead beat: if after x weeks you don't hear o…

XKCD 538 comes to mind: https://xkcd.com/538/

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#133

Any thoughts on why SBF lied to the Vox reporter about it being a hack? https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-frie... Maybe he just didn't want to have to explain some breaking news to her.

> [..] accused Bankman-Fried of attempting to undermine their efforts [..] by pushing the second bankruptcy case if that is true they might have very well had reason to lie until the bankruptcy proceedings in the Bahamas have started successfully/maybe some under the table agreements where completed. I wouldn't be surprised if they have some deal with the Bahamian government giving them some benefit for allowing the…

> Like them not knowing that the transaction was a asset seizure in context of the bankruptcy proceeding is a possibility as crazy as it might sound.

This would _also_ imply that whoever internal to FTX that authorized the asset transfer for siezure didn't tell anyone and covered their tracks well enough that SBF didn't know about it.

I mean, it's possible? But seems more straightforward that SBF was simply lying in the vox interview, he still seemed deluded enough to think he could fundraise his way out of the abyss, and this lie was part of his attempt to raise funds.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [..] accused Bankman-Fried of attempting to undermine their efforts [..] by pushing the second bankruptcy case if that is true they might have very well had reason to lie until the bankruptcy proceedings in the Bahamas have started successfully/maybe some under the table agreements where completed. I wouldn't be surprised if they have some deal with the Bahamian government giving them some benefit for allowing the…

> Like them not knowing that the transaction was a asset seizure in context of the bankruptcy proceeding is a possibility as crazy as it might sound. This would _also_ imply that whoever internal to FTX that authorized the asset transfer for siezure didn't tell anyone and covered their tracks well enough that SBF didn't know about it. I mean, it's possible? But seems more straightforward that SBF was simply lying in…

[deleted]

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns. Guns are how. Guns are how governments achieve their objectives. There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns.

> There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns. On the contrary. It's the only case where maths can defend vs men with guns. Multi sig schemes spread over different people over several continents make the "men with guns" thing very difficult. Or multisig but m-out-of-n, with a dead beat: if after x weeks you don't hear o…

> $5 wrench attack, here's my real password: take the 50 millions. Oops. Decoy. On the other password there's $2bn.

Somehow I don't see state actors falling for that, especially when they have a rough idea of the actual numbers involved, based on the shitton of angry people, some of which are very rich and very well connected, clamouring about it.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns. Guns are how. Guns are how governments achieve their objectives. There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns.

> There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns. On the contrary. It's the only case where maths can defend vs men with guns. Multi sig schemes spread over different people over several continents make the "men with guns" thing very difficult. Or multisig but m-out-of-n, with a dead beat: if after x weeks you don't hear o…

Sometimes the men with guns are also distributed across multiple continents, and the only way to protect yourself from them entails making a deal with other men with guns.

If you’re part of a multi signature scheme and you’re hiding from US authorities in, I dunno, China or Russia or Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran, there’s (a) not much stopping Uncle Sam’s boys from sneaking up on you anyway if they’re sufficiently motivated and (b) some local men with guns whom you might need to deal with as well.

In reality it’s probably not worth it for the US to track you down to the ends of the earth and/or get the CIA involved if you’re just trying to sneak some ill-gotten money out of the country, and it’s a lot easier for one of your multi-signature holders not to get caught than for the authorities to simultaneously catch up with a quorum. And maybe your group includes some people who really don’t mind living the rest of their lives in these types of places.

But for those of you who live within the greater American empire, the price you pay for keeping that money out of Uncle Sam’s hands is going to include keeping it out of your hands and also you go to prison if you ever get caught. Which is probably a bad deal unless you’re a drug cartel or some other group that’s already sort of priced in that outcome.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XKCD 538 remains ever relevant.

Not really. That one has been solved seen Bitcoin BIP 39 with plausible deniability. I mean: unless the attacker knows exactly how much coins you have, he has zero way to way if you're unlocking a decoy wallet or the real one.

> I mean: unless the attacker knows exactly how much coins you have,

They don't need to know the exact number. They need to have a rough idea of the number. In the most likely scenario, where a state wants access, they tend to have a pretty good idea, because they get that information from investors, state agencies, banks and seized records.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#139
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but that's the very purpose of such schemes, to render you unable to comply. if such an event happens in a more or less civilized country, you might eventually get some third party to confirm that you're unable to disclose the key

"Call your friend and convince them to hand over their key if you want out"

"If I ever ask you for the key over the phone, play along and send me random bits and feign ignorance to my further requests"

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#140
post #107

No one is mentioning that the new FTX CEO wrote in a recent Chapter 11 filing that the hack we're discussing here was actually 2 events: the movement of ~$300 in crypto AND the dilutive printing of ~$300 in FTT. Can somebody please explain that second one? Because this makes no sense at all.

Perhaps this is a noob question but are those 2 related? When SBF was ordered to hand over $300M of tokens did he create $300M of FTT - technically complying with the order but not at the same time - that does sound like an SBF play. He previously stated that FTX weren't trading with customer deposits, technically true - the deposits were loaned to Alamada who were trading with them.
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