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$477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

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31–40 of 243 posts

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#31

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how ? Was the Bahamas' SEC holding its own copies of FTX's keys? I thought the entire point of these schemes was that this kind of seizure-by-force wasn't possible (absent exploits or insiders).

Guns. Guns are how. Guns are how governments achieve their objectives. There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns.

XKCD 538 remains ever relevant.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns. Guns are how. Guns are how governments achieve their objectives. There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns.

Are you suggesting that the Bahamas infiltrated FTX with guns and took their keys?

No. They just told FTX to transfer the money, and FTX complied.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#33

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how ? Was the Bahamas' SEC holding its own copies of FTX's keys? I thought the entire point of these schemes was that this kind of seizure-by-force wasn't possible (absent exploits or insiders).

The keys to the local jail cells can unlock a lot of other doors as well.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns. Guns are how. Guns are how governments achieve their objectives. There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns.

Are you suggesting that the Bahamas infiltrated FTX with guns and took their keys?

No, they're suggesting that SBF is in their jurisdiction, which gives them substantial "do what we say, or else" power.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The announcement was from the new FTX under emergency CEO Ray, not the old FTX under SBF. And the Bahamas claims that the specific FTX company that did the transfers, FTX Digital Assets, was not a part of the bankruptcy proceedings and that SBF was still its CEO. Finally, new-FTX did not say they were "hacked", only that the transfers were not authorized by them.

SBF straight up said multiple times it was a hack in his leaked talks with a vix reporter many days alter

Considering that SBF was reported to be "under supervision" by the authorities, it doesn't seem too implausible that the Bahamian government showed up to their office and politely requested an employee with access to transfer the funds, and for them to keep their mouth shut.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#36
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence? At a glance, this seems to be Bahamian civil servants diligently doing their duty that was given.

The Bahamas has a total population of a smallish city and surely a national budget to match. Grabbing 500M anonymously (while letting everyone run around for days thinking it was a hacker) doesn't make much sense either. Did they put their entire country's budget on the exchange or something?

When exchanges registered in the Bahamas are in danger of losing customers money, Bahamian government has authority and duty to seize assets to protect customers. Bahamian government is taking custody, it's not their money.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns. Guns are how. Guns are how governments achieve their objectives. There is no crypto scheme, no algorithm, no possible arrangement of private keys and Merkle trees that can escape the reality of men with guns.

Are you suggesting that the Bahamas infiltrated FTX with guns and took their keys?

It probably looks like someone showing up with a court order, but government agents with the right to use violence to enforce court orders is a large portion of what gives such orders teeth.

Of course, violence isn't the only sort of coercion... but it's part of it.

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>absent exploits or insiders Insiders can be press ganged with threats of violence, which the state has a monopoly on.

I had assumed that they had some kind of obtuse M of N scheme with no sufficient number of parties in the same place at once, but that was perhaps too optimistic (?) of me.

Armed government agents show up to your door asking you for half a billion dollars. You tell them "can't do it, I need this other key that's held by my partner in a different place". What do you think is going to happen next? "Understandable, have a good day" and they go home? Or they hold you in jail until you somehow find a way to comply?

Re: $477M FTX ‘hack’ was a Bahamian government asset seizure

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that the Bahamas infiltrated FTX with guns and took their keys?

No, they're suggesting that SBF is in their jurisdiction, which gives them substantial "do what we say, or else" power.

We could call that problem something fancy like the Byzantine General Problem and try and figure out ways to solve it mathematically.
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