“Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
141–150 of 412 posts
Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#142Many commentators seem to think this is a sudden, recent backpedaling from a previous absolutist view on free speech. However, Musk has been promoting the "freedom of speech" vs "freedom of reach" distinction for a while, at least months before his takeover, including describing how such a policy should be implemented at Twitter. Here's one example quote from June, 2022: “I think there’s this big difference between f…
A message spreads on Twitter because individuals on Twitter amplify it (with engagement, retweets etc.) which is itself a form of speech: if you say something bad, and I retweet it, I am engaging in speech. Imagine a piece of land with 500 million people on it: a person 500 million people away from you cannot hear you, but if you say something and people choose to repeat it until it reaches that person… that’s Twitter. To prevent that is, in any framing, limiting free speech.
Twitter has some magical engagement-driving algorithms (for example, the homepage) but these are not the primary driver of engagement/reach on Twitter, so they could be removed entirely and this problem would remain.
So you’re probably right to say this isn’t a sudden 180 on his thoughts, but it still highlights how faulty his framing of free speech is.
Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#143Note that this is the dictionary definition of shadowbanning, which is the primary thing the free speech advocates on Twitter were hoping Elon would stop Twitter from doing.
I am not trying to provoke a flame war here either actually if it comes off that way. I think the business of social apps is trendy and you have to know your audience.
Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#144Many commentators seem to think this is a sudden, recent backpedaling from a previous absolutist view on free speech. However, Musk has been promoting the "freedom of speech" vs "freedom of reach" distinction for a while, at least months before his takeover, including describing how such a policy should be implemented at Twitter. Here's one example quote from June, 2022: “I think there’s this big difference between f…
Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#145Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's more fundamental than that. Some forms of speech can indirectly or directly limit the speech of others. Free speech absolutism in an unachievable panacea; it is a logical fallacy.
I'm not following you. What can I say that prevents you from saying something? That would seem to violate causality.
Any syntactially correct but illogical thing, basically. The textbook example is "have you stopped beating your wife? yes or no, asshole".
Most humans aren't very good at being rational. Undermining someone's capacity for correct reasoning and effective communication is a whole dark art - one that is fundamental to our entire social reality. Also known as "trolling", in the offline world - as "bullying", or if you want to be academical about it, "exercising soft power".
Of course, it's only considered reprehensible if an individual does it.
Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I could argue that I am shouting so that everyone can hear me. I could be shouting important things. You could argue that, yes. What you can argue doesn't matter. I can also, equally, argue that I am free to DDoS someone I don't like, because there is no technical limitation to my doing so, and that anyone attempting to stop that is inhibiting my free speech or free use of whatever hardware I control. Where does any…
> And if this free speech absolutism is a position that no one holds, why are you arguing against it? Musk is a free speech absolutist, by his own admission. His followers are likely similar. > I have never heard even the most die-hard free speech supporter advocate that someone is free to follow you around all day, yelling to drown out your voice. It's a contrived example, but despite that free speech absolutism all…
I don't think his concept of free speech absolutism matches yours. Given the other things I've heard (something about moderation teams with diverse voices, and this news about deboosting) it seems more likely that you're arguing against a strawman here.
>It's a contrived example, but despite that free speech absolutism allows for it.
Does the free speech absolutism you're arguing against allow for sonic cannons? Doxxing? Lighting burning crosses on people's yards? If so, again, it's pretty far away from any form of free speech I've ever heard a free speech advocate actually... advocate for. I'm asking this seriously; can you point me to anyone honestly arguing for that as a social ideal?
Edit: In fact, this topic roused some curiousity in me, so I went to look up what the actual philosophical roots of "free speech absolutism" were. The first result[0] is rather creepily relevant, discussing Elon Musk's bid on Twitter and his self-admission as a free speech absolutist. Very relevant to your arguments are the following passages:
> Free speech absolutism has its roots in philosophical theories dating back to the 17th century, but it was first discussed as a defined principle by the 20th century free speech advocate and philosopher Alexander Meiklejohn.
> His writing focused on the United States, and much of his thoughts were put forth in the context of American constitutional law. In fact, the very idea of “absolutism” – that there are certain absolute principles in political, philosophical, ethical, or religious matters – is an American idea. In theory, a free speech absolutist would be extremely hesitant (or refuse) to draw a line between free speech and hate speech in most contexts, and in all contexts where the speech could possibly be considered political speech.
> This commitment to self-rule, in Meiklejohn’s view, justified and formed the basis of the constitutional right to unfettered free speech guaranteed by the United States Constitution, and warranted its absolute nature, meaning it should not be weakened or watered down to bend to other social values.
> However, his understanding didn’t extend to private speech about issues not of public concern. So, while your right to publish your views about a social issue is safeguarded, even if others may take offense, Meiklejohn believed that you can’t rely on free speech protection to shout casual abuse at someone on the street. (emphasis added)
So yes, even the original, definitive free speech absolutist disagrees that your example is allowed by the principles of free speech.
[0]: https://www.liberties.eu/en/stories/free-speech-absolutist/4...
Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#148Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
People’s problem with Twitter was always that they would arbitrarily decide what is or isn’t acceptable speech, and Elon’s new solution does…exactly the same thing. The only thing that will change now is that liberal politicians and views will start being targeted rather than conservative/alt-right ones. Is anyone here really naïve enough to believe that this whole saga has been about “free speech”? It is simply a sh…
> The only thing that will change now is that liberal politicians and views will start being targeted rather than conservative/alt-right ones. Conservative speech like "lower taxes are better", "extract more petroleum", and "prayer should be allowed in public school" were never targeted. The "conservative" speech banned were things like "LGBT people should have their human rights denied" and "Let's get together and a…
Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”
#150Many commentators seem to think this is a sudden, recent backpedaling from a previous absolutist view on free speech. However, Musk has been promoting the "freedom of speech" vs "freedom of reach" distinction for a while, at least months before his takeover, including describing how such a policy should be implemented at Twitter. Here's one example quote from June, 2022: “I think there’s this big difference between f…
Sooooo shadow bans.